In this episode delve into the intricacies of parenting with Albiona Rakipi, a seasoned parenting coach and host of the Parenting Reframe Podcast. With over two decades of experience in early childhood education and speech-language pathology, Albiona shares her journey and insights into effective parenting, reflecting on both professional expertise and personal experience as a mother.
Albiona begins by discussing her path to becoming a parenting expert, emphasizing the importance of a rear-view perspective—learning from past experiences to navigate current parenting challenges.
A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the concept of discipline, which Albiona reframes as a teaching opportunity rather than a punitive measure. She emphasizes the importance of understanding children's underdeveloped executive functioning skills and using logical and natural consequences to guide behavior. This approach fosters a more supportive and empathetic parenting style, encouraging children to learn and grow through their experiences rather than fear punishment.
The conversation also touches on the challenges of modern parenting, particularly the impact of social media and technology on children's development. Albiona advocates for balanced screen time and stresses the importance of open communication and trust between parents and children. She shares her personal approach to managing her own children's exposure to social media and technology, highlighting the importance of fostering resilience and self-regulation.
Elara and Diana also explore the nuances of co-parenting and maintaining a strong marital relationship amidst the demands of parenting. Albiona advises on the importance of setting aside dedicated time for partners to connect and support each other, acknowledging that this can be particularly challenging during the early, sleep-deprived stages of parenthood. She underscores the value of mutual respect and understanding, suggesting that couples communicate openly about their parenting styles and find common ground.
Another critical aspect discussed is the role of external family members in disciplining children. Albiona stresses the importance of clear communication and setting boundaries with grandparents and other relatives to ensure consistency in parenting approaches. This helps create a stable and predictable environment for children, reducing confusion and promoting healthy development.
The episode concludes with practical tips for managing everyday parenting challenges, such as handling tantrums and ensuring children follow instructions without resorting to punitive measures. Albiona's advice centers on maintaining calm and composed responses, validating children's emotions, and providing clear and consistent guidance.
Overall, this episode of The Matcha Guardians offers a wealth of knowledge and practical advice for parents navigating the complexities of raising children in today's fast-paced and often overwhelming world. Albiona Rakipi's insights remind us of the importance of empathy, patience, and continuous learning in the parenting journey
More:
Albiona's Website, The Parenting Reframe: https://theparentingreframe.com/
Podcast: https://theparentingreframe.com/podcast/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theparentingreframe
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theparentingreframe
Substack: https://albiona.substack.com/
[Music Playing]
Voiceover (00:00):
Welcome to The Matcha Guardians Podcast, brought to you by matcha.com. Here we focus on the biggest trending health topics of our time, featuring the greatest and upcoming wellness advocates. Now here are The Matcha Guardians, licensed dietitian, Diana Weil and medical journalist, Elara Hadjipateras.
Elara Hadjipateras (00:18):
Hello-hello, and welcome to this week's episode of The Matcha Guardians.
Diana Weil (00:22):
Elara and I are especially excited about our guest today as Elara has a five-month-old and I am just about to have a new baby. Today we have Albiona Rakipi, who is a parenting coach with over 20 years of experience and the host of the successful Parenting Reframe Podcast.
She helps parents reframe their children's behavior and also reflect on their own parenting style. She has a bachelor's degree in early childhood education and a master's in speech and language pathology. Welcome Albiona.
Albiona Rakipi (00:49):
Thank you both so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Elara Hadjipateras (00:52):
How did you become a parenting expert and specialist? How'd you get into this field in the first place?
Albiona Rakipi (00:56):
It's so interesting. It's funny, I still struggle with the word expert, so I don't know. I just feel like I have a unique POV when it comes to parenting, in part because I am also a parent, and my kids are now older. I have an almost 21-year-old and an 18-year-old.
And I think for me, I got into this space because I started to see the benefit of a rear-view perspective, meaning I could look back and instead of kind of trying to solve things while being in the weeds, I could look back and kind of go, “Yeah, that was pretty critical and you have to show up this way.” And then there were moments where I was like, “Gosh, I didn't even need to stress about that.”
Coupled with the fact that I do have my background in early childhood and early childhood development. I taught for 12 years. And then after that I decided that I wanted to deepen my work with kids. So, I went back and got my master's in speech and language pathology and went on and kind of switched gears and went into the medical field and worked in pediatrics in an outpatient center and loved it.
Went on to become the assistant director there and I'm just about to leave that job, sadly. It's been one of the best places I've ever worked. I've been there for some time, learned a lot, but it's because the Parenting Reframe really has grown and there has been this need for parents to sort of kind of want that one-on-one support.
So, the parent coaching really happened on accident, I would say. I started off just as a writer on the topic of parenting. I wrote for local publications. Then I started to just write a blog, and then other different publications would call or email and say, “Can we use this article,” or “It was really resonant.”
Then I began write for the EveryMom out of Chicago and a few other bigger publications. And then from there a friend of mine who edits a lot of my writing and helps me with it, her name is Stephanie Steinberg. She's the founder of the Detroit Writing Room here in Detroit.
And she said to me, “You should really kind of have a game plan when people start to reach out to you and say do you work with parents? Do you do consults for parents?” And I actually said to her, “I would never do that because I don't love giving advice.”
That really was my answer to her. And so, we kind of have a chuckle about it now, but yeah, I didn't love sort of the righteousness of what the parenting space started to feel like in terms of there's a right way and a wrong way and a good way and a bad way.
And then with the rise of social media, it just felt like there was also a lot of compare and despair and it kind of brought up different things to the surface. And so, I just started to write and write my own perspective and, developmentally speaking, what I thought kids needed.
I've said this in multiple things that I've created, but for the last 20 years, the thousands of kids that I've worked with have really been my greatest teachers. I've sat across some amazing professors, and I've been taught in some incredible classrooms.
And at the end of the day, it's really been those moments with the kids that have awakened me or have made me see things in a different way. And so, that's probably a really long-winded answer to your question, but that's sort of how it became, it was sort of a layered process and little by little I leaned into it and said yes.
And now it's been a really fun opportunity to just connect with families and work with them, and through their own parenting experience, not necessarily me with their child, but helping them sort of connect with their child, which has been a new opportunity. So, I'm loving it.
Diana Weil (04:06):
So, do you work with the whole family? Do you work with the parents? Do you go into the house? What's the process as being a parent coach?
Albiona Rakipi (04:14):
Yeah, I don't go into the house. Not yet. I've been asked every now and then. To some extent I feel like there is benefit in that. At the same time, I think I would want to take over, and I know that sounds wrong, but it's like I have worked hands-on with children up until this very day.
And essentially that is sort of where my special sauce is, is I can tune into what a child is trying to express through either their behavior through whatever it is that they're communicating to a parent.
And I think for most parents it's so difficult because one, we are kind of thrust into this experience without really a lot of education on it. I mean, certainly you can learn different things and while I have degrees, that didn't really matter when my own kids came along. There still were different things that arose.
And that's because there was still my journey that was continuing. I was still continuing to develop. And so, naturally my kids would trigger things in me and then couple that with these societal and cultural expectations of what I was supposed to be like as a parent.
And from there it just became … it was a journey where I could learn and grow and the ways that I specifically needed to so that I in turn could specifically meet them where they needed to be met.
And so, when I coach families, that's what I'm trying to get at. So, when I am doing it, I do it virtually. And we have one-on-one calls. And the nice thing is I meet with the parents and that first call is really dedicated to, I always call it like “lay of the land” call.
I just want to know everything about your family. I want to know like the good stuff, the good moments, the things that feel hard, the things that make you so grateful, what is your child like? I want to get to know your child through your eyes. And then that then helps me paint a little bit of a better picture of how I can support you depending on the challenges that come up.
And then I usually work with families for a minimum of two months because meaningful change just takes time. And if we have the expectation that in a quick call, we'll resolve everything, I'd be a very wealthy person and there would be a lot of problems solved, but it just doesn't work that easily. It's really a process and we have to evolve and lean into it.
And so, yeah. And then they can also have texting access to me, and they can call and voice message me because I think it's important that I can help in real time, even though I'm not physically there. So, it's really meant to be a support system to parents.
And sometimes it's just a parent might reach out and say, “You know what? I don't necessarily need support behaviorally speaking with my child. I'm just feeling terribly overwhelmed. I need a space, I need somewhere to just — doesn't necessarily mean therapy, but I just need somewhere to go so that I can process some of the things that are coming up for me on this mothering experience,” or even in cases of fathers too.
So, that's usually how it works. Sometimes I've even met with caretakers and grandparents. It just depends on the family needs. So, but yeah, in a nutshell that that's sort of the support that I provide.
Elara Hadjipateras (07:02):
Is there a specific age you'd say or a range that would be particularly beneficial to work with? If we wanted to be preventative, let's say, everything seems to be going well, but what would be the most effective age for you to work with parents and a child?
Albiona Rakipi (07:17):
Yeah, I think it depends. I would consider myself more skilled in the area of early childhood. So, anywhere between 18 months to — I mean, really from birth until about 10 or 11 years of age.
With that said, I've also worked with parents of adult children and teens because it's interesting for a lot of parents, I think what starts to come up is that we start to see the parts of ourselves in our past that still need parenting.
And you can have remarkable parents. I'll use myself as an example. I have really fantastic parents. I'm still very close to them. They really just poured so much into my brother and I and sacrificed a lot. They were immigrants. And so, I have a lot of reverence and love for them, but they didn't do a perfect job and by their own admission.
And so, there are certain things in my own childhood that I thought, “Okay, I want to do it a little differently for my kids.” Or there's just cultural expectations and things of that nature.
So, sometimes even if you're the parent of an older child, some of the things that come up is like, what's for me to worry about now? And what is it that's their responsibility? Where are those boundaries? Things feel very blurred. Enmeshment sort of comes up.
So, really supporting a parent through the process of even letting go. Who are you in the absence of being the parent of this child? If you've identified that way for so long, who are you now that they've gone off to college and they're craving independence and you're just kind of putting the pieces of your own life back together because so much of yourself went into that process.
So, it varies, but I would tell you if you're sort of a parent of a younger child and you're really wanting to optimize from a developmental standpoint, all of those skills and just making sure that things are on point and that type of an experience, then yeah, certainly I would say from birth to about 10 years of age.
Diana Weil (09:00):
It's funny because my husband and I joke about no matter what we do, we can try our best and we're absolutely going to screw up and, in some form, screw up our child and in some point down the line they'll be going to therapy for something that we've done, you know?
Albiona Rakipi (09:16):
Yeah.
Diana Weil (09:17):
The other thing that you said that really stood out to me was the social media aspect of finding advice on parenting. And it feels like such a landmine and it's something, I have followed all these parenting accounts, and the comment section in particular is just — it feels explosive and more so than any other topic maybe that I've ever seen on social media.
And I'm a dietitian, so I work in the food space, and I feel like people are very opinionated about food, but the parenting, I mean, it's worse. And I'm just curious your thoughts on that, why you think that is, and also how do we find good resources on parenting? How do you know who to trust?
Albiona Rakipi (10:00):
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. I think it's a little bit of the wild, wild west and in part it's because there are so many different parenting styles and there are so many different things that play a role in how we choose to parent and how we decide to parent and the type of child we might have. Especially, I work with neurodivergent learners. There's a different experience for that parent.
So, I think, to answer the first part of your question in terms of why are we kind of — if you kind of sit in the comments of some of those posts and you see people, I think there is something about parenting and our children mean so much to us and that process means so much to us that the idea of getting it wrong can sometimes feel unbearable.
Even though, like you just said, Diana, you and your husband looked at each other and were like, “Okay, we know it. We're not going to do perfect.” And that's actually really refreshing. I think more parents need to have those pep talks with each other because I think what ends up happening is we come steadfast in the way that we think is “right.”
And then the best way I can describe it is like righteousness is really problematic. In order for me to be right, it means I must find out who's wrong. So, instead of thinking to yourself just being able to sit and hold multiple truths at the same time and that a lot of things can be true, even if they conflict, it doesn't mean it isn't true for you and it isn't true for Elara. It's going to feel different for everybody.
And we don't leave space for nuance anymore. So, instead, when something gets spoken or said that might trigger us, we automatically want to double down because we must be right; otherwise that means what we're doing to our kids is wrong.
So, I think that there is an instinctual righteousness that comes with it. And unfortunately, if we're not going to pause and just create awareness around the fact that there are a lot of different ways to parent, like you can look at people who might adopt more of an attachment style parenting.
They might co-sleep together. And this comes up a lot in sleep. I'll use an example. I was coaching the mother, and she was really struggling to separate her three-year-old, take her out of her bed and put her in her own bed. They both work, they both have really busy lives, mom and dad.
And she was trying, and I finally said to her, “Sounds like you're fine when she's in your bed. You're sleeping well, she's sleeping well, dad's sleeping well. It seems to be okay. What is the impetus for you to want to take her out of your bed?”
I'm not telling you the right or wrong way to do it. And that's something I'm very clear about with my parents. I'm not here to contribute to the noise. It's really about what will be effective for you and your family and how can we achieve that in a way that's going to meet your child's developmental needs.
And so, she said to me, “You know what, that's actually really liberating because I'm so busy with a move and all these other things in my life that if I don't have to feel like I have to take her out of the room and she can just stay in here for another however long until we decide it's the right time to transition her, that feels really good to me.”
And I said, “Okay, great.” And she said she went and had dinner with eight girlfriends that are also moms later that night. And coincidentally said to them, “You know what, you guys, I'm just going to say it. I co-sleep with my daughter. I feel like there's a lot of shame around it, and I don't even care. My parenting coach today told me that if that's what works for you and you're all getting good quality sleep as a result, keep doing it. It's not a problem unless we make it one.”
And she said all eight of her friends raise their hand and said, “Okay, we all sleep with our kid too in our bed.” And it was this moment of they all felt safe enough to be able to say it, which is actually like, yes, it's a good thing, but it's also kind of sad because quite frankly there isn't anything wrong with that decision in the same way that there isn't anything wrong with the parent who says, “I'm actually not sleeping well at all. I'm up all night because they're moving and they're kicking, and we've got to solve this somehow.”
So, again, it's really just about finding to your point Diana, of how do we know it's a trustworthy person and it's a good source. Part of it is they should never be trying their hardest to convince you that their way's the right way. I think a big part of it is that I'm not here to kind of bring people onto this mission of parent this one way.
It's really about I have a lot of tools in my toolbox from doing it for so long and I've done it differently with so many kids because I've worked with so many different children and it requires you to show up in different ways so I can support you through that.
But it's not really to be able to say that's wrong. And this is right.
Diana Weil (14:05):
There were so many gold nuggets in there.
Elara Hadjipateras (14:08):
I'm just so glad you brought up the co-sleeping example. Because I was about to bring that up with my experience where I felt very strongly about co-sleeping not being a good thing to do because that's kind of what I've been brainwashed to think.
And I was really nervous about it impacting my relationship with my husband on a romantic level. I was like, “Oh my God, once you bring the kid into the bed, they're never going to leave. You're going to lose all intimacy whatsoever.” Which was really scary for me.
But that's not the case. I was really strict for the first two months of my son Koa's life. And now I put him to bed in his crib at night, but then once he wakes up, I bring him to bed with me and I absolutely love it.
I am sleeping so much better. I think I told you Diana, it's honestly my favorite thing is contact naps and sleeping with him. But everything that you read, at least that I was reading, was don't do that, don't let him sleep on his belly. All these things.
Like he sleeps much better on his belly, he sleeps much better with me. So, one of my questions I have for you is how does a parent create secure attachment without making your child dependent? That's kind of the thing I get nervous about, I guess.
Albiona Rakipi (15:13):
It's fair. And to some extent they'll be dependent because that's just the nature of the relationship for a while until you reach that more interdependent state, which doesn't happen really until about 18 months, maybe a year depending on the child.
So, at this point for your … you have a son, correct?
Elara Hadjipateras (15:29):
Yep. A son.
Albiona Rakipi (15:30):
So, for your son, he depends on you for his survival, for his functioning, for his needs to be met. So, it's an age where that dependency to some extent should be fostered.
I'm not saying to the point where it doesn't ever give you a break or there aren't moments where we have to teach kids how to self-soothe or give babies other ways of sort of being able to feel either stimulated, whether it's through toys or sensory experiences or just having tummy time or whatever the case is.
But don't necessarily be afraid of that because also that's another kind of, I think trap, in the parenting space is like if you do this then you know what's going to happen. There's always this like doom and gloom kind of aspect to it.
And the truth is like let's for example use a pacifier. So, there's a lot around, I can speak to this as a speech and language pathologist. Everybody's like, “Don't give your kid a pacifier, blah, blah.” And when my kids were younger, they were both very colicky and I was like, “Take the pacifier.”
It didn't matter at that point because I was just so exhausted and fatigued that I just had to make a decision that was going to help me stay sane for the rest of the handful of days until we got through it and they took a pacifier and then one day (I didn't want them to depend on it any longer because I know that kind of negative impacts it can have in terms of the oral cavity and whatnot), we took it away.
So, again, you can always shift and change whatever is learned now, but I would tell you to just, if he needs something and there's that dependency that is taking place, that's okay. And then when you can create moments of a little bit of separation, do it in little increments for yourself and for him.
Because it is beneficial. We don't want them to just always be held. Those little muscles have to work in certain ways. They need that activity; they need to be looking at different things. There's so much that the brain still requires, but again, don't feel terribly fearful that you will create a habit because it can always be changed, it can always be adjusted.
Elara Hadjipateras (17:32):
Very comforting to hear. Thank you.
Albiona Rakipi (17:33):
Yeah, of course.
Diana Weil (17:34):
There's so many black and whites in parenthood it seems, and I feel like you're really talking in the space of gray that pacifiers aren't good or bad, it's just kind of how we use them.
Albiona Rakipi (17:42):
Exactly.
Diana Weil (17:43):
We haven't made this transition yet obviously to parenthood, but we're right on the cusp. And one of the things that I'm most nervous about is the change in our marriage. And obviously I know that things will change, it’s going to be the biggest change that we have ever.
What advice do you have for parents protecting the original relationship, the marriage while also being very devoted parents?
Albiona Rakipi (18:03):
Interesting. It's one of the most common, I think, pain points that most couples come to me with. So, if they have, let's say a three-year-old, a four-year-old, even younger and they're like, “We just have different parenting styles and we're responding in such different ways, and we can't seem to agree who's right and who's wrong.”
So, there's inevitably natural things that will change in your marriage. One is that you have this new baby that's going to just consume your time in a way that your time hasn't been consumed before.
So, there's a new kind of allocation of time and the both of you kind of committing yourselves in different ways. Then there's also, as the child grows that decision making process, and just being able to say do we agree? And then maybe when we disagree, what's the game plan?
Because that will come up and there's nothing wrong with disagreement either. I think it's really valuable to have two very different parents as long as there is a way of kind of coming to that middle kind of peaceful place where you make decisions and parent from there.
As far as preparing, I don't know that it's anything we can kind of prepare for. I think you're already doing great things and even just having conversations around it.
I can tell you for myself what was really helpful is my husband and I, and we're still together 23 years later, but we just said that we still wanted to make sure that our relationship was a priority. I think, Elara you can probably speak to this because you're in the thick of it right now of like the sleep deprived days and the new baby and it's like, “What is it Thursday, Friday? I don’t know what's happening.”
And it just all feels so overwhelming. And then the idea that you and your partner maybe have to set aside different time, I would say just do it in a way that feels doable and that will keep changing but keep putting it in the books, keep making it a priority.
The hardest piece in that is that you are going to have to accept support and help. And so, that was for me, I remember the first time when we left our son and I don't think we were doing anything crazy, like just going out to dinner, but it was this tug of war inside of like, “I shouldn't be leaving and I'm actually so tired and what if he needs to be nursed?”
And there were just all these different things at play. And then once I left the house and once I knew he was fine, it was like I could completely allow myself to relax and just enjoy the night out and just being able to have conversations like we used to have and things of that nature.
So, recognize that that will be a struggle and maybe not, but for me it was. And that also doesn't mean because there's some reluctance to it or some resistance around it. Sit with it and kind of work through it.
Don't immediately say no, there's a real kind of, especially because of the fatigue, I think there is a sort of a knee jerk reaction to kind of go, “You know what, not now, maybe in a month we'll do dinner,” because there's just too much on your mind. But at the same time those moments are just really important to keep in mind.
Elara Hadjipateras (20:39):
Absolutely. I just did a trip for the first time without the baby where my husband and I went to a friend's wedding in Copenhagen. Originally, he was supposed to come with us and about 10 days before the trip I had a metldown and I said, “I can't do this. This is a six-hour time difference. He's already kind of not sleeping well because he's turning over. I'm just going to leave him with my mom.”
Because at this point, he is really good at combination feeding. He nurses and he takes the bottle and of course I had my head spinning thinking, “Oh my gosh, he's not going to want to nurse when I come back.” All these things.
It was much tougher on me than him. And like you said, the toughest part was probably the day leading up to me leaving. And then once I was in the car heading to the airport, it was very out of sight, out of mind.
And I had such a wonderful weekend with my husband. It was so fun, staying up until three in the morning. Kind of finding that peace of yourself again. It was amazing.
But I will admit, it was about a four-day trip, by the last day I was itching to get home, and it was worse when I would FaceTime him. He was obviously very happy. But when I saw him, it definitely was like I would just rather out of sight out of mind. I don't want to see him until I'm back with him. As long as I know he's healthy, happy, eating, good.
Albiona Rakipi (21:44):
Yes, absolutely. That's beautiful and that's great that you had that opportunity to do that. And the more you do it, the more comfortable you'll feel with it. And also, as he gets older, he will be better and better about it too because it will just feel like part of the norm.
My kids had really involved grandparents on both sides of the family and honestly, we would joke at some points of like, we all have joint custody because they were just always either there or one was over or whatever the case was.
But it was great because now I can tell you that my kids are older, and they have such great relationships with their grandparents and they're very close to them and it's a different relationship than a parent relationship.
And so, yes, were there moments where my mom would feed my son donuts instead of what I wanted to have to have for dinners, of course. But at the same time in the grand scheme of things, those are so small and I'm just so glad I allowed those relationships to evolve and unfold because they were loving ones, they were secure ones and my kids really got so much out of those relationships, it just makes their life richer.
So, remember that as these opportunities present themselves, it's really a gain for your child too.
Diana Weil (22:49):
I grew up in a divorced household and so thinking about that, I think one of the best things that we can do for our kid is to protect our marriage. So, that's also something I think is important to mention.
How do you know when you're ready to have kids? Do you have any advice for people who are like, “I want kids, but how do we know when we're ready for it?”
Albiona Rakipi (23:05):
That's a tough one. And I just think context matters. I think the person who's thinking about it, it's interesting. I think the opposite. I'm starting to see more and more of the opposite with certain women saying like, “I actually don't want kids, but I feel afraid to say it.”
And so, there's this shift in terms of culture and being able to actually say that without the expectation being so when are you having a baby? And we kind of run down this timeline that we expect everybody to adhere to.
And so, I think you'll never be a hundred percent ready. I think that's — I was young, I was just out of college, I just finished my bachelor's and I'd only been teaching for a year. I wasn't expecting to be pregnant that early in the marriage.
And it was a blessing, and it was the best thing that happened to me. But that was my situation. But I don't know that I sat and thought to myself, “Am I really ready?” I think to some extent you just know that it will be a ride and that there will be moments that'll be so nourishing and wonderful, and you'll be so grateful. I mean, honestly, it's the most amazing experience.
But to also recognize that there will be trying moments and there will be challenging moments and that that's all okay. It doesn't mean that you're doing a bad job or that you weren't ready.
I think when we kind of look for this definitive moment to say, okay, I'm ready. I think in some instances that might not ever really happen or you might want to sit with other options then too. It's just one of those things that I don't know that you're ever, ever really ready and in part it's because I just don't think you fully understand it until it's here.
Elara Hadjipateras (24:38):
Absolutely. The word I like to describe parenthood as whenever Diana asks me is, it's wild. It's a wild time in the best sense of the word. He's a pretty tough boss, the hours are crazy. But I love him. But it's a wild ride and there's no way to properly prepare for it.
One of the questions I had for you is about discipline, disciplining our kids. I'm not at the point where I think … having a five-month-old, there's anything that he does that's wrong. I mean, whenever he cries, he's just communicating. It's one of the main ways that he knows how to communicate.
But once a child gets a little bit older, do you have any advice to parents on disciplining their child?
Albiona Rakipi (25:19):
Yeah, so it's interesting. Discipline is again one of those words that can be really triggering to some people, and it can also make people think of words like punishment and coldness and strictness and things of that nature.
So, first I always like to kind of just start with the word itself just means to teach. So, when we say discipline, if we just break it down to its roots, it really, the word itself just means to teach. So, essentially, it's just your opportunity to teach your child who isn't able to manage themselves yet because their brains are still developing.
So, if we just look at it very simplistically, it isn't that we're punishing them, it isn't that we're ensuring that they get a negative consequence when they engage in a behavior that's undesired. It's that they're communicating that they don't have the either executive functioning skills, yet neurologically speaking to manage impulse or inhibition or maybe waiting feels too difficult.
So, they might push the friend in front of them to get to the line faster. There is a lot of ways of how it shows up, but it's really just communicating that underdeveloped brain. And so, it doesn't mean to be passive or permissive, it does mean discipline would be required.
But I don't believe in things like harsh punishments, things that make a child feel punitive or something that could be shameful or fear-based tactics, which are sort of common if you look at parenting even from probably our generation and beyond where you did something and then you were either yelled at or punished or made to feel ashamed.
And so, a lot of it is like with modern parents, I think, because we're just trying to undo some of those patterns so that we can allow our children to A, experience what we would consider a “negative emotion.” And then B, giving them the space to actually process and metabolize that and work through it. I think most of us didn't get that.
So, I just taught a workshop, and I actually did it for free and it was remarkable how many parents signed up for it because I didn't even know how it would land. But it was about emotional regulation for just parents, not for kids.
Just actually teaching yourself how to respond in a way where you're not reactive, but you're actually just more thoughtful in the way that you're responding and recognizing what your child needs without escalating with them.
I always call it energy matching. When your child has a tantrum, do you sort of escalate with them and become very unsettled and start to say, “Okay, stop crying. That's not that big of a deal. If you don't stop crying right now, you're going to go to your room.”
We kind of can't handle what they're going through. And so, as a result, we probably make the tantrum worse. Or you have a child who would, let's say, value approval- your approval. And so, the minute you are voice shifts and changes, it scares them. So, then they completely stop.
And so, in either scenario it's not great because in the second example, you're just teaching them that when I feel this way, my people around me either get really mad or they kind of lose it or nobody seems to be with it.
So, I've just got to shut that down. I've got to keep it in, I've got to not allow it out. And so, I do believe there's probably better ways to work through that. So, I'm big in the space of teaching good skills around emotional regulation for both parents and for kids. How to help kids self-regulate, how to co-regulate together.
But as far as discipline goes, my kind of favorite things to lean on- Dr. Aliza Pressman who hosts Raising Good Humans Podcast, but she's fantastic in the parenting space. And she actually says there's two types of consequences. One is logical and one is natural. And those are really great kind of rules to keep in mind.
So, a logical consequence would be like, “Hey, if you throw your toy at brother, I'll have to take it.” So, they throw their toy at brother, that's a really logical consequence. You're just going to take the toy that they threw away or give it a break or take some space.
A natural consequence is your child might do something in school and maybe we desperately want to run up to school and let's say they forgot their homework and they call and they say, “Can you please bring my homework and I really need it.” And it maybe it's the fifth time they've forgotten it.
And so, maybe in that instance you decide to use the natural consequence method and you just say, “You know what? I'm really busy right now. I'm so sorry I can't bring it, but you'll be fine. You'll be okay. Whatever happens, happens, let's learn from it and you'll be fine.”
So, I think those are two really good rules of thumb to kind of consider when you're faced with some of those challenges.
Elara Hadjipateras (29:33):
About two months ago I was at this big family dinner. It was at 7:00 PM. My brother-in-law and sister-in-law had their six-year-old at dinner. And he would not sit at the table for more than a minute long.
I would say as far as emotional regulation, they were very calm, not escalating things at all, but they could not get him to sit down at the table. Do you have any advice for parents as far as how do you get kind of that five, six-year-old that has a lot of energy, they're really excited, to sit at the table? What tips do you have?
Albiona Rakipi (30:05):
So, it's hard. I mean, for starters, I think we have to have realistic expectations. So, the first thing I'm thinking is seven o'clock late for them? And maybe it's not, I don't know because I don't know their family kind of routine.
But for some families I know that — like I just worked with a family on this, and they have a two-year-old, it's obviously much younger and they were adamant that they all kind of sit together as a family, but not until dad came home and it was kind of cutting into bedtime.
And so, I finally said like, “Can we relinquish this ‘have to’ situation until maybe he's a little bit older and instead just feed him dinner earlier because that's actually when he needs it and he'll be much better the rest of the evening for you if we actually just kind of let that go.”
And she did. And it's amazing because now they actually eat together and they're calm and he's playing and he ate his dinner earlier, but they still bond in other ways. It's not the only time we can bond. So, first and foremost, I would say, “Was the timing right?”
Secondly, if it's not like for me and it's a big family gathering of that sort, there are a lot of reasons why it could be hard for a six-year-old. So, we now have an environment that's a lot more overstimulating than maybe what dinner at home looks like.
You have more people, there's more clanks, there's more dishes, things look different, there's just so much to take in. So, once our sensory system becomes dysregulated or it's a little bit out of sorts, movement is really helpful for that.
So, he might have just naturally had the desire to kind of move and get up and instead of just being seated. Past that, if the thought is like, no, we really just want him to sit, then I think it's fair for him to be able at that moment to have maybe something to hold onto at the table that would help him stay seated.
Even if he needed to color or if there was some kind of activity that he could do at the table while the adults were seated. I think that's fair. There are a lot of different kinds of activities we could also do and play games back and forth.
But keeping them kind of engaged in the process so that it's fun and it isn't just like you have to sit down, you have to sit down. In the world of a child that doesn't make sense to them, they're like, “I actually can get up. So, I'm not sure what you mean when every time you keep saying this.”
And it doesn't hold the same value. Like for you, you're enjoying that adult time, you're communicating, you're socializing, there's all this great connection that's happening.
But most kids don't love staying seated at a table for a long period of time. That's not how they connect. They will go wrestle with their cousin in the other room and that will feel a lot more meaningful to them than sitting through the first course of dinner.
So, I think again, just being a little realistic about expectations and also in moments when it is a have to, then really thinking about how to make it an engaging experience for them as well.
Elara Hadjipateras (32:32):
Have a bag of tricks to bring with you.
Albiona Rakipi (32:34):
Exactly, yeah.
Elara Hadjipateras (32:35):
That maybe they haven't seen before and … that’ll keep them a little bit more occupied and at the table.
Albiona Rakipi (32:41):
Yes, exactly.
Diana Weil (32:42):
Can we talk about spanking and the argument, “I was spanked as a child, and I turned out fine.”
Albiona Rakipi (32:47):
Sure. I hear that a lot.
Diana Weil (32:49):
What's your response to that?
Albiona Rakipi (32:51):
For starters, I always like to validate a parent's experience. So, if they are saying to me, “You know what, my dad or my mom did A, B and C and they spanked me, and man, I knew not to talk back.” And I'll hear that a lot and they'll say, “I turned out fine.”
I always will say to them, “You turned out in terms of what society expects, you are functioning fine. You are productive, you're holding down a job, you're doing wonderful and that's fantastic.” And also, because I don't know that person's parents, my guess is even when there was harsh discipline, I'm sure that was also coupled with a lot of love.
So, we don't want to kind of throw everything out the window and be like, because you were spanked, you just had this horrible childhood. You likely gained these other really valuable skills and those very loving experiences that you had with your parent.
And in part that's probably why the spanking hurt so much more because that's your person. And now it got to this point of actually physical harm, and it starts to fracture things like trust and vulnerability.
I mean, so my next question to that parent would be, when's sort of the last time you allowed yourself to cry in front of somebody else? When's the last time that you asked for help? When is the last time that you allowed your child to completely and totally express themselves while you completely stayed still and just held your boundary and didn't feel the need to fix or change them?
So, I think while “fine” to many of us can mean a lot of different things, and it's not to say that there's anything wrong with that person. It doesn't justify doing something that we now know, there are many better ways to parent than to resort to things like spanking.
So, certainly in our parents' generation, that's what happened in most homes. A lot of parents did that, it was “the norm.” Research has come out; we know so much more. We're exposed to different ideas now, let's at least try a better way.
Like I said continue this idea of evolving and then you will see that there are better options. And sometimes it's just the idea of staying open. Just try it this way and let's just see what happens. And usually, they're pleasantly surprised because no parent wants to spank their kid either.
So, usually when the parent justifies it with that argument, I think even in that moment they hate that they have to even say that because there is reluctance. Nobody wants to do that. So, when you've kind of said that my feeling is that that parent's back is against the wall and they just don't know what else to do and they have to at least be able to justify why it isn't the worst thing in the world.
Diana Weil (35:20):
So interesting. Elara, I have this question for you too. I think spanking is especially an older generation, we were probably spanked as children and so it's probably a discipline that's going away mostly.
But in terms of other people disciplining your children, mainly family members, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and then potentially spanking, how do you set boundaries around that? What are the conversations, what are your thoughts and Elara, no one obviously has disciplined Koa yet, but I'm curious just how you feel about like grandparents disciplining Koa and just from both of you.
Elara Hadjipateras (35:53):
Man, I mean, I think he's so young that there's not much disciplining. There's no spanking happening. But the thing that I have heard and actually has been from my parents.
I also have wonderful parents and they have an ocean of patience when it comes to Koa when he is kind of having a tantrum, they kind of remain, they're the steady guiding mast in a storm, like on the sailboat, just kind of like, okay, if you want to cry, let it out and then it'll pass and you know, then you'll probably relax and fall asleep. They're really good at that.
I have ever had moments and my husband have moments where I'll be — and it's especially hard for me, I'll be in the other room and my husband will have gotten up in the middle of the night to kind of handle the middle of the night waking and I'll hear him get frustrated and say things like, “Would you just be quiet? Please stop crying.”
Where you can just hear in his voice that he's tired, he's frustrated, he doesn't know how to help him. And those are probably the hard moments where then I have to stop myself from when he comes back into the room, I have to stop myself from going into the room and saying, “Let me just do it. You clearly can't handle it,” because then he is never going to learn how to do it.
And then I have to stop myself from being very reactive in him coming back into the room, getting angry at him and maybe waiting until there's a better time to have the conversation, say the following evening, once I've put Koa to sleep and it's kind of our daddy and mommy time once he goes to bed those couple of hours where we know he's going to be sleeping well and I know that he's in a good mood. He's wound down from work.
And then I'll say, “Hey, last night you kind of sounded a little bit frustrated.” “Yes, I was frustrated. That's totally understandable. What could we do to avoid that?”
One of the things I had to do a few times, I think I told you Diana, when he was really crying, crying, I just, I didn't know what to do and I was beside myself and I was so tired as I just put him down in his crib, kept crying. I just leave the room, just put some water on my face, look at myself in the mirror, take five deep breaths, go back in, become calm.
And I had a lot of guilt about that, just that I was like, “I kind of have to leave for just a minute or two just to reset myself.” But I actually think that was very valuable to me.
So, that was kind of a long meandering answer to your question, but that's kind of where I'm at as far as discipline. It has to do with me kind of taking a moment to emotionally regulate and bring myself down and not be triggered by whatever he is doing.
Diana Weil (38:14):
A good point though too that it's not just grandparents and uncles and it's also potentially your partner.
Elara Hadjipateras (38:18):
It's also your partners because you guys are going to handle things differently and that's hard because you can have conversations about it, but you really don't know what it's going to be like until you're in it. And let me just tell you the whole sleep deprivation, you're a different person. At least in the beginning.
Albiona Rakipi (38:35):
Yeah, no, I totally agree. Yeah, Elara, I love all of that. So many good things there in terms of even being able to walk away. It's interesting, I had Dr. Shefali, author of Conscious Parent on my podcast and she said that … we talked about tantrums and she said, “If you as a parent while your child is disregulated,” because there's really not a lot to do other than soothe and comfort and you're in a situation where you can now, but when they become older sometimes they're like, get away and I don't want you.
And there's robust language that comes with it and things of that sort. So, she said, it's actually a really good idea for parents to step away to keep themselves calm. And she used that exact example of like splash and cold water on your face, even running your hands under cold water.
But give yourself that minute to reset. Give yourself that minute to kind of bring it back into your body and really kind of relax and sit with it and then walk back in. It will always result in a better outcome, and we can take care of ourselves in that process and your child will be okay too.
In fact, in some instances, sometimes when we step away, our kids can self-soothe a little bit faster. It isn't that they're doing it to manipulate us, it's just that everyone's different. Even myself sometimes I just need a minute alone to process something. I don't need somebody around me. And it just, once I've had a second to really reflect on my thoughts, I can anchor, and I can kind of calm back down.
And then also, just to answer your question, Diana, about other people, I think it's fair to be able to come up with, you know, the types of discipline that you feel comfortable with. And I think it's okay to communicate that to other caretakers.
If it's family members, there's always going to be a little bit of a gray area where they're thinking it's okay to say one thing and just kind of take it with a grain of salt. But if it's somebody who's around your child all the time, I think it's fair to be able to say, we don't spank or we don't do X, or this is how we're handling this particular situation and kind of see where that leads.
But the other thing, to follow up on the spanking thing, that I had forgotten to mention too, is that really research does tell us it's really ineffective. So, if you're doing it as a means to change behavior, which most parents are doing it for that reason, it's my child has to stop doing behavior A, I'm going to spank them when they do it in hopes that it stops. It's really ineffective.
It just usually doesn't work and it usually either deepens or makes the problem worse or it just transfers to another problem. It makes another problem worse. So, it is not really a good resource, or a good tool and it might feel like the thing to do in that moment.
But like Elara said, that's more about us controlling our reactivity in that moment and managing, and that's why the work I do with parents is important because it's really about taking care of yourself also in those really kind of tenuous moments of ugh, you're just going to — and you're going to hit that moment.
It's just inevitable. Every parent has yelled at their child. It's impossible. You're just going to reach that level of fatigue and overwhelm. And so, your children are a lot stronger than you think too. Repair is really important and as long as we're open to always learning and growing, our kids will be just fine.
Elara Hadjipateras (41:33):
Yeah, definitely. I've had a couple times where I've yelled in response when Koa was just crying. And then I think the worst thing is there was two incidents where he just got really quiet and kind of looked at me and I just thought, “Oh my gosh, I am my father.”
Yelling at him and he is five-months-old, he's not doing anything wrong. I mean, this is just clearly me kind of losing my top. And it's, yeah, you're going to have those moments and I guess it's about realizing it and it not becoming a pattern.
And just saying, “This is not effective. I don't want to be the type of parent who screams at him and then he kind of shuts down emotionally,” which of course is the response that you're trying to elicit in the moment.
Like, okay, he's quiet, but then you don't want him to then like you're saying, it creates this dominoes effect of well now he's going to be emotionally shut off and shut down whenever things kind of get louder.
Albiona Rakipi (42:24):
Absolutely, yeah. And for kids who are really kind of approval based, meaning like some kids are, they just really desire to please their parent, that parent has to be extra cognizant of the fact that when they raise their voice, when they resort to maybe some kind of old-fashioned parenting style that was used however many years ago, they might feel tempted to do that because it's effective.
But at the same time, you also have to recognize that for that child that's actually not helpful in the long run. You might have a short-term kind of successful moment, but in the long-term you're also going to have a child who learns pretty quickly that “Oh man, approval means everything. Even at the cost of how I'm feeling.”
Elara Hadjipateras (43:02):
I have this kind of popping up in my social media feed all over the place as far as people with very strong opinions about this, about how do you build confidence without spoiling your child?
I've heard things like, you should not tell them how handsome they are and how they're so smart and all these things and such. You should be talking about; I love the work that you put into this, or I love how curious you are. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Albiona Rakipi (43:25):
Yeah. A lot actually because I think it's probably the one area where that pendulum swings too far the other way and we're just constantly praising and giving a lot of positive reinforcement, which is important, and it does have its place.
But they've done studies on this, and they found that, I mean, and I think this is really like the best way to describe it. But confidence comes through competence. And the only way we become competent is by actually struggling and by actually having a challenge in front of us and not having somebody come and save us.
And for being able to see that we got through it and that we built a skillset in that process, and we were okay and though it was hard, I made it. And the next time something hard presents itself, I'll also be able to manage it. So, confidence comes through competence. It's really just that simple.
So, I would say in this kind of new stage of parenting, there is so much kind of preventative stuff so that our kids never struggle. Our kids never have a need go unmet.
And someone said this to me once and I thought it was really great advice, but she said that, “Think of your parenting journey this way. In some ways, no matter how attentive you are, how great you are, how much you know you will fall short. And in the areas you fall short are the exact areas your child needed you to fall short so that they can learn what they needed to learn so they can grow and become who they need to be.”
In the same way that we can all reflect back on our own lives and look at experiences that were challenging or hard and we wouldn't trade them for the world. Because that's probably where the good stuff lives. That's probably where those moments where we became more resilient, we trusted ourselves. We gained the ability to go, “Okay, next time that came up, I was completely unbothered,” or whatever the lesson was that we needed to get out of it.
So, it's really meant for everybody, everyone takes their peace in it. So, even in the moments where you feel like “I might have fallen short,” your child will get something out of it.
But confidence, really, if we just sat and praised our kids, they call it shallow confidence. And what ends up happening is they become so reliant on external validation and they're so unreliant on that internal piece to be able to kind of work through something hard or to work through something challenging and to essentially build grit that the second there is an absence of that external piece coming in because that's how the world works, and life works that will happen to them. They completely fall apart.
And we see a lot of fragility. We see a lot of challenges around kids like this being able to kind of pick themselves back up and face adversity and they tend to sort of go and withdraw because they haven't been given the tools and the ability to see that they can manage it, they can deal with whatever that challenge is.
Diana Weil (46:03):
That is fascinating.
Elara Hadjipateras (46:05):
I think we could do a whole podcast on building grit as you grow, right?
Albiona Rakipi (46:08):
Yes.
Elara Hadjipateras (46:09):
That's so important.
Albiona Rakipi (46:11):
I know. And it's hard. It's really hard, for a lot of parents, it's this idea that, I'll talk to a parent, and I'll say, when your child is crying, because you set a boundary, let's say you say to them, “It's time to give up the iPad,” or whatever the case is. And they're giving you pushback and they're crying and they're struggling and they're having a really hard time.
And most parents in that instance, we struggle to watch them struggle. And we also know that they're struggling as a result of the boundary that we're setting. So, now we try to fix it. So, we're the ones who set the boundary.
We're the ones who basically elicited the event fairly though. It's something they have to learn that sometimes the answer's no. We have to tolerate events that we don't always want and undesired outcomes.
But now we're backpedaling and we're trying so hard to fix it because we also don't want them to struggle. The messaging is so confusing. It's like, “Okay, I'll set a rule, I'll set a boundary, I'll take it away.”
But the minute that child exhibits any kind of upset around it, we're like, “Okay, well you can have it for five more minutes and then after five minutes I really mean it this time. Then I'm going to take it.” And the negotiation starts, or maybe we offer something else, or maybe …
That's because of us. That's because now we're watching them struggle and it feels so uncomfortable to us that we want to fix it so badly.
And instead, we just have to let them struggle and just know they're safe, they're okay, love them. Show empathy. Be like, “I know, I get it. I hate when I have to give up something I like too, I bet tomorrow we'll have more time with it. But I get it. I get that it's hard right now.” And just let it be.
That's the hardest part. But we want to fix, and in our desire to fix it, we take away those opportunities for them to gain the ability to know they can manage it so that the second, third or fourth time when you set that same boundary, if you've allowed that to happen, usually by about the third or fourth time they go, “Oh, okay.”
And they hand you the iPad because they've built the ability to understand that I'm okay when this happens. So, it just takes time, and it also requires us to get out of the way a little bit.
Elara Hadjipateras (48:02):
Diana, do you have strong opinions about children and screen time?
Diana Weil (48:06):
Well, okay, so that was exactly... How did you know that's where I was going?
Elara Hadjipateras (48:08):
And I thought you're going there too. I know that face. Yeah.
Diana Weil (48:11):
That’s exactly where I was going to go. I think that that's one of the hardest. Harley and I have talked — there are going to be so many things that we didn't talk about, but we've really tried to be like, “Okay, what do you think about this? What do you think about this?”
And for me, that is one of the things that I'm like, I don't know, I don't know how you navigate that as a parent in terms of when do you give a kid a phone? How do you manage social media with kids? The screen time stuff just seems so challenging.
And I don't have any judgment towards parents who go out to dinner and their kids are on screens because sometimes you just need to eat dinner. And if you're on an airplane, sometimes you just need to give your kid the screen but it's a really hard thing to navigate. And we're not even there yet and it already feels hard. So, what-
Elara Hadjipateras (48:55):
I've committed to not using a screen for the first three years. And I've already thought about the incidents of what you're saying, the kid on the airplane screaming and I'm like, “You know what? If he's going to scream for the whole flight for his iPad, he's going to do it.”
And the people around me airplane are going to hate me, but you know me, Diana knows that I'm the type of person where I'm very unapologetic and I can deal with just like mass humiliation and be okay with it. Versus my husband, that is his biggest nightmare is having the kids screaming on the plane.
So, for example, we're traveling to Hawaii next month and I'm flying with my mom. My husband's flying the next day. Because I'm like, “Look, I can handle it. Me and my mom will fly with the baby. If he wants to cry, he can cry. If you want to travel on another day, that's fine.”
And I'm not going to get caught up on like, “My husband isn't going to be on his first flight, this or that.” That is the compromise we have made.
Albiona Rakipi (49:43):
Yes. That's so funny. I mean, screen times, it's a big, big, big topic. Again, like all the other areas that you've heard me describe, I'm going to kind of stay in that gray space. I can tell you what I did. So, my kids didn't get cell phones until they were 14.
According to them, they were the last ones. That might be true. I don't know, I think it's late, 14 is fairly late. Then they didn't get social media apps until they were closer to 15 or 16.
Diana Weil (50:10):
How did you ensure that they weren't actually getting the social media apps? I'm sorry, I just have like already-
Albiona Rakipi (50:15):
That’s okay. Yeah, no, that's okay. They just would've needed my password to do it. So, I just knew that they weren't on, and I could check their phones and my husband too. And so, we just knew.
I also will preface this by saying that I don't think social media use was as kind of crazy as it is now. So, we're talking 4, 5, 6, 7 years ago for my kids.
I also think the benefit in waiting is that they had already developed other interests and that didn't include the phone. And those continued. So, they were both actively into sports and they are athletics. They're big, big, “be outside and move a lot” types of kids. So, that also remained, and I was happy about that.
I will tell you, even though I gave it to them late, even though they got the social media apps later, it still affected them. It still was hard. For my son, he's really good about social media. Just, I think it impacts girls so much differently than it does boys.
But he can take the apps off of his phone. He plays college soccer right now and when he's in training and it's hit the whole season, every single social media app, he removes it from his phone. He wants no distractions. He's got really good kind of social media hygiene. He's really good at being able to manage it.
And I think my daughter went through a period of time where it was addictive, and she wanted to kind of constantly see what everyone else was doing and looking like and wearing and buying. And there was a lot around it.
And now I would say at 18 her habits around it are getting much better and she's able to recognize and see and she can discern, “I don't want to really be on it for a couple of weeks,” and she'll take breaks, all self-imposed. They're not anything that I'm making her do.
So, I think it's a little bit of a fluid process. I think you have to eventually teach them how to manage it. I don't know that it's ever going to be a world where we're like, no, never. Like you're just not going to be able to have it.
So, that's sort of my take on older kids getting phones. I do think there has to be a little bit of a back-and-forth dance of pulling back, watching to see the impact it's having and then really guiding them through some open-ended questions around how does it feel? And not really coming in with being so directive. Like, “You're sad, I know it's because social media, take Instagram off your phone, blah, blah.”
That's that sort of fix it and knee-jerk reaction in us parents. We just want to protect them so bad. But sometimes if they can arrive to that answer on their own, I always say like a lesson learned independently is a lesson learned for life. It's a lot more effective than if I come in and say, “Take it off your phone. It's really impacting you.”
But again, I was not in a situation where it was causing severe anything. So, there wasn't severe anxiety or depression or if I was seeing those types of things, maybe I would have a very different answer for you.
For younger kids, honestly, I did let my kids watch a show while I cooked dinner. Or kind of like you're saying Diana, you have to eat dinner and you're at a restaurant and you're just like, I didn't even care about the restaurant people, I just wanted to be able to eat.
I was like, “You people around me are probably going home to nothing. I'm going home to now having to give a baby a bath and crying all night or whatever.” So, I just need the 20-minute dinner to go well.
So, whatever the case was, I think that you have to stay open to breaking rules and bending rules. I think when we really kind of put ourselves in a position where we're like, this is an absolute non-negotiable, that's okay. And there's value in that and I think that's wonderful.
But at the same time, if you see that there has to be some give or take with that situation, don't beat yourself up about that either. That's okay. Like I said, my kids did get to have screens here and there. I mean I don't even think iPads were quite out yet. And if they were, they weren't like what they are now.
I remember traveling with a portable DVD player, I'm probably really dating myself here, but it was this popup thing, and you put the DVD in it and whatever and so on long plane rides, I did use it, but they were older. They were probably like three, four. I mean we've been traveling with them since they were babies.
So, I think it's one of those things that you have to find your balance. I think the biggest problem, because there's so much buzz around it, my actual hope is that they do enforce some laws around when kids can have some of the social media apps.
And I hope that happens for your kids because what's tricky right now is that so many kids socialize, it's their way of socializing. So, when we say to our kids, “You can't have the app until you're this age,” in so many ways, we're removing them from all of that socialization that happens within their school setting or their friend group or whatever the case is. And they're just perpetually left out. And so, you don't want that either.
And so, parents are in a really unique position where it's like you're like David and Goliath, like it's impossible. There needs to be some external support, be it through structuring things differently, rules. So, that is I think my long-term hope.
But I think what I was going to get to is that because there's so much kind of talk and chatter around just screens in general, I think parents are very emotional and reactive around them. So, you'll have a child who let's say is playing video games and you say to him, “Hey, you have to get off your video game in a half hour.” And he says, “Okay.” Again, they're like in a time warp. They don't even know what a half hour means when they're in the middle of it.
So, now you go in the half hour's up and instead of just being able to say “Okay, that's it, it's the half hour,” you're so mad. And you almost start to think to yourself like, “Oh my gosh, I'm the parent. I have a kid who's literally zoned out, zombie out playing video games,” and we react from that place.
“That's it. No more video games.” We're pulling the cord out of the wall. We're completely reactive about it. But then other times when it's convenient for us, we're like, “Here, take the iPad. Go sit down in the other room. I need to be able to do this.”
So, I think for a lot of our kids, especially younger ones, it's like, “Are they good? Are they bad?” Sometimes you're handing it to me and you're asking me to look at it. Other times you're lashing out and taking it out of my hand and putting it away.
Like there's just this kind of ping ponging effect of the way we respond. So, I think just be thoughtful about what is the balance for you. Like Elara, you're like no screens until three. Perfect. No, but that's okay. You have a set system in place.
Maybe Diana's going to say a half hour a day. And once you have a structure that feels right to you and your family, you're not going to be as reactive around it. You're not going to feel as emotionally attached to what's happening because you won't look at it as a direct reflection of how you're parenting or not parenting well.
So, that would be my best advice is just to figure out what's … and seasons change. Like my daughter, when I was pregnant with my second, I got so sick, my son watched so much TV, it was just the only way we could make it from morning until night.
And he's okay everyone, I'm happy to report. Sometimes we get so worried about what will this do to them and what will happen? He's great. He's productive, he is a good student, he's hardworking. We made it, we made it. For three months, he literally watched Blue’s Clues until I couldn't take it anymore. And he's doing just fine. So, show yourself grace in the moments when you have to break those rules.
Diana Weil (57:03):
I cannot imagine being pregnant with a toddler by the way. That is something that I think about.
Elara Hadjipateras (57:06):
Yeah. That just seems exhausting.
Diana Weil (57:08):
That sounds very hectic.
Albiona Rakipi (57:10):
Lot of rules will be broken.
Elara Hadjipateras (57:12):
Yeah, I will preface that he does … I wouldn't say he — he's so young that he's not holding a phone at this age. But I have a friend who lives over in Athens, Greece, and one of the things she's done with her older son who's now five-years-old is he was allowed to use the iPad or phone, say during a meal or kind of whenever they felt like he needed it.
But the only thing that he was able to access on the phone was he could FaceTime relatives. Like say he was missing grandma or grandpa, he could FaceTime them or he could look at memories, his own memories.
So, he would go through photos and videos taken on the phone of events with his family members. And I have to say the time that I've spent with him, he has a really good memory. He has really good recollection. I don't know if that's because he spends all this time kind of looking back at photos and events that he's experienced.
But I got really inspired by that. And so, I told myself, “Okay, no screens.” And when I say no screens, I guess I mean just I don’t know, Peppa Pig, things like that. But I am totally pro him FaceTiming with my husband when he is traveling for work or FaceTiming with grandma grandpa and then maybe looking at videos and FaceTiming auntie Duby.
Yeah, that's Diana's name is Auntie Duby, so that's totally fine. We actually did that earlier today and he was kind like a zombie staring at the screen, just-
Diana Weil (58:25):
I got a few smiles.
Elara Hadjipateras (58:26):
You got a few smiles. But he was trying to eat the screen as he was looking at Diana. And that's okay. I'm okay with that. And who knows, maybe a year from now we're going to do another episode on the podcast and I'm going to say “I love the iPad, I give it to him four hours a day. He is watching Daniel Tiger all the time because I'm pregnant and I'm super sick. So, I say right now I've kind of set a gray boundary but-
Albiona Rakipi (58:52):
Yeah, it's fair. No, it's really fair. And like I said, as long as it feels balanced to you, anytime we kind of go one way or another we're too extreme and whatever's coming up, if it's like, for some parents it's the easy answer. And so, now we have kids who struggle to play functionally or purposefully or socialize.
There are a lot of kind of drawbacks to letting a child just sit on a screen for hours at a time. So, their attention span is changing, and they were comparing cartoons from I want to say like 25, 30, even 40 years ago to current shows and the screen, the visuals on the screen change at a rapidly faster rate than they did when we were younger.
So, even if you think of something like, I don't know if I'm like — I'm probably a lot older than you guys, but like Bugs Bunny, the screen didn't change all the time. It stayed kind of stable and just characters kind of zipped in and out.
Now the change is so quickly that even our kids' visual attention span is starting to change as a result. So, there is a lot of value in merit in being able to say I'm going to keep this away for as long as I can.
I just know the realities of parenting and what kind of awaits sometimes. And that when there are those moments where you have to say just you can watch while we eat dinner together or while A, B or C is happening. I think that those are the moments you have to just be kind to yourself instead of feeling like you are doing something wrong.
Diana Weil (01:00:06):
I have a bunch of nephews and nieces and they're the best. But my two oldest nephews are 11 and 8 and they have the Gabb phones. Have you guys heard of those? I think it was created in Utah. So, I think it's a Utah thing.
But they're cell phones but they can only text the contacts that their mom puts in the phone for them and it's great because they can kind of set up their own play dates or they'll send me like a text message. So, they have a phone and they're young, but it's not like they can't search the web, they can't call people.
So, I also think that there's different products and options coming out that seem … because like you mentioned that's how they socialize with their friends. They now text their friends, but they probably have maybe 10 contacts that they're allowed to text. And I don't necessarily want to take that away from kids but it's tricky.
Albiona Rakipi (01:00:58):
Yeah, no that's a great solution. Even knowing their location as they start to get a little bit older is really helpful, so there's a lot of ways where these technologies can help.
I have a coworker in her, she has middle schoolers and when they're getting off the bus, she's at work and she can see them get into the house and she can see when they're on the bus. And I mean there's comfort in that and knowing like they are where they say they are and that they're safe and they got home.
And so, there is value in some ways there's a lot of great ways that technology has helped us. It's just really finding that middle.
Diana Weil (01:01:29):
I know that we're running out of time, but I can't, I have to ask this. What do you think about tracking kids' locations and when do you stop?
Elara Hadjipateras (01:01:38):
Never, you never stop Diana. My mother still has my location.
Diana Weil (01:01:42):
My mom tracks me all the time, but I mean it's different when they're 16.
Albiona Rakipi (01:01:47):
Yeah. So, this is interesting. It's a good question. I get asked this all the time, so I will give you my answer. Although I'm not saying this as a declaration of what the right thing to do is.
So, I will just preface it by saying this, also just for context, I am like not the most technologically sort of sound person. So, someone had to even tell me that you could do this thing, that you could actually turn on locations and you could know. And I was like, “That's amazing.”
So, anyways, long story short, I've never tracked my kids, and this is the reason, I think there is value in teaching your kids how to be impeccable with their word and telling you where they are and being truthful and understanding the value. And when you tell me something, I need you to be honest.
And if there are times where we have found out that they weren't where they were, then there are natural consequences or ramifications that happen and that's an important lesson for them to experience as well.
So, I will say fortunately for me that hasn't really happened other than maybe one time. And I just know that for them there was a lesson in being able to say this is what I'm doing, this is where I'm going.
Also, keeping us in the loop of where they are I think is an important practice while they're younger. Now they're older every once in a while, I do think about it with my son living further away with school. It would be nice to know, but then even then I think I'll just kind of, let's just say I look at the location and he's not at the apartment or he is not… then I'm going to start to worry.
Then I'm going to want to find out where he is. Then I'm going to want to know why is he — and then it's like at one point it becomes too much. So, it's really, for me it's been about practicing those boundaries of giving them the space that they need.
Also showing them that I also trust them, and I don't have to know and double check that they're telling me the truth. There is a lot of trust back and forth in that if you say to me, you're going to best friend's house today and that's where you guys are staying, and I know that that's the case. I trust their word, so I think it's a mutual thing.
But again, I know a lot of people, I think I'm probably in the minority here, like the tiniest of the minorities because I know the value and how comforting it can feel to know where they are.
But that is my reasoning why I never did it and I still don't track them. But what's funny is my son and daughter, brother and sister, they track each other. So, it's a thing. I think it's a thing and I think it's my husband and I don't track each other, I don't know, it's so interesting to me.
But there are times where if one of them is running late or something, I'll say like, “Hannah, check your — do you see where Adrian is?” They'll check on each other and so if I need to, I do ask, but otherwise, yeah, I just haven't done it. But again, you got to find out what works for you.
Elara Hadjipateras (01:04:26):
Yeah, there's the latest iPhone, what is it? The iPhone 15 that's just come out, the commercial is literally showing how specific and exact location services is where within a room this little green arrow pops up on your screen and directs you right to the person you have to-
Because right now it's a bit more general. You can locate a person at a given address, but now that's kind of the new thing. So, obviously people are into it. I can also see the benefits of it. I also follow all my siblings and my sister-in-law.
Albiona Rakipi (01:04:58):
People use it and so again, I'm not here to say don't do it. I think there's probably a lot of reasons why maybe I should have, but that was just how it started for me, and I felt like it was going well and that it was teaching them an important lesson and then I just never ended up doing it.
Diana Weil (01:05:12):
It feels very different when it's your husband or partner or sibling and it's more for fun versus your child and it kind of feels like big brother like.
Albiona Rakipi (01:05:19):
Agreed. Yes.
Diana Weil (01:05:21):
Well, Albiona, this was — I mean truly I have a million more questions for you. Thank you so much. But before we let you go, and we didn't prep you on these so feel free to take a minute if you need. We have two questions that we always like to end our podcast with. So, the first question is, what was a lesson that you had to learn the hard way?
Albiona Rakipi (01:05:41):
Okay, let me think on this. This is interesting. I just wrote about this too. I think for me, and this goes back to I think what has been probably my favorite advice and it's just so simple and it feels so non noteworthy, but it ties into your question, but it's the idea of just slowing down.
I think it's like somehow the minute I became old enough to know I could control certain events in my life or how fast schooling went or jobs or whatever the case was, it was like someone hit fast forward and I just was constantly like I graduated early, I got my master's faster.
I was always on this mission to do things quickly and I was working with somebody, and she told me one time like, “Have you ever just slowed down, just in all contexts?” Not even just productivity, but just even like when something upsets you and you go to respond, just slow down or something causes you to feel panicked, just slow down.
Or your kids are in a moment where you're so desperately wanting to fix it or change it or partner or whatever the case is. And you know you want to jump in and give the answer, slow down. It's so applicable in so many, at least challenges that have come up for me. And it certainly took me the longest because again, I was like, fastest is best. I'm going to stick to that pace forever.
And I can tell you now in my mid-40s, a slower pace just feels so good. It just feels very in line with what I need to be doing. And I don't sort of get chaotic or hectic or frenzied with what ifs and oh my gosh. And I just kind of allow and accept each moment as it is.
And so, that's probably been the hardest, the longest, but also the most valuable advice that I've been able to learn or the lesson I've been able to learn.
Diana Weil (01:07:27):
That's a great one.
Elara Hadjipateras (01:07:32):
Alright, so follow up question and I'll preface it with this just as how you're feeling right now. It's not a whole lifetime in one question. Do you have a particular mantra saying, something that you've picked up from a close family or friend that you're using right now as a mantra?
Albiona Rakipi (01:07:48):
I have two. One is that I always just say “let it be,” because I think for so long there's been sort of a desire to have things be a certain way. And so, instead of following up with what let it be should be like, it's just more allowing and saying like, “I'm just going to let it be and let's see what shakes out or let's see what happens.”
And that all is well. There's so much that's not in our control even though we think it is. And so, I think in moments when we can just say all is well, it's just a reminder that there's still so much good around us no matter how difficult a moment might seem.
Elara Hadjipateras (01:08:22):
I love both of those. And going back to your first answer for the question Diana asked you, that's also my personal thing is I just need to slow down. I use that one a lot and it really resonated with me. And yeah, Albiona, we've loved having you as a guest today. Where can listeners find you and find more of you?
Albiona Rakipi (01:08:41):
Yeah, you can just follow along at the Parenting Reframe on Instagram and on TikTok, I do a lot of videos on TikTok. I actually have a relatively large following on there. Shockingly, I've never had social media until I turned 38.
So, I had my kids help me navigate it. But yeah, I do a lot of short form videos just talking on different topics on mostly parenting. But I also have a newsletter over on Substack called Parenting Reframe and we talk about reframing parenting and life on there.
And my website is the same name, the parentingreframe.com and I also host a podcast by the same name. So, just come over and if you join me on Instagram come over and just say hi or send me an email. I always like connecting with people.
Diana Weil (01:09:24):
And if people want to work with you that don't live in Detroit, everything is virtual, correct?
Albiona Rakipi (01:09:28):
Yeah, most of my families actually aren't close to me. They're all over the world as a matter of fact, which is kind of interesting when we play with time zones.
Yeah, they can just go right to the website and then the option of work with me is there. I always do a free 20-minute call before I book a family for two months. In part it's because I want to make sure that I'm the right person for you and that I can get a sense of what your needs actually are.
And fortunately, having worked with kids for so long, if I'm not your person, I can generally point you in the right direction of what you might need. And that's happened before where I'll be like, “Gosh, I really think you need to go to this person instead. And I think they'll be your answer.”
And then other times I'll say, “This sounds great and I know I'd be able to support you through this process.” But the free calls are really helpful, and it allows you to get to know a little bit more about what that process includes and the kind of support you would receive and if that feels right for you.
Diana Weil (01:10:17):
Well, thank you so much. I for one am absolutely heading to go listen to your podcast right after this.
Albiona Rakipi (01:10:24):
I appreciate it. You're both so lovely. Thank you so much for having me on here. I could talk to both of you forever.
[Music Playing]
Voiceover (01:10:29):
Sip, savor, and live well with new episodes of The Matcha Guardians every Wednesday. Follow our show for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you're listening right now. Leave your questions and comments below. Find us on Instagram at The Matcha Guardians or click on matcha.com.