This week, we have the privilege of sitting down with Karen Malkin, a trailblazer in health coaching, integrative medicine, and brain health. We explore her inspiring journey from a lifelong passion for wellness to becoming a board-certified holistic health counselor and an expert in cognitive decline prevention. Karen’s story is a testament to the power of prioritizing the mind-body connection and learning from life’s challenges, including her experiences as a mom to four energetic boys.
Karen walks us through her unique approach to health coaching, which goes beyond surface-level advice. She believes in creating sustainable behavior change through motivational interviewing, personalized goal setting, and empowering her clients to discover their own solutions. We dove into the ethics of coaching, the importance of certified professionals, and how coaching can help bridge the gap between medical advice and actionable, day-to-day habits. She even gives the Matcha Guardians some real-time health coaching!
We also discuss Karen’s passion for brain health, a focus inspired by her father’s battle with Alzheimer’s. She introduces us to Dr. Dale Bredesen’s ReCODE and PreCODE protocols, comprehensive plans that address cognitive decline through lifestyle changes like nutrition, exercise, stress management, and detoxification. Karen also shares practical tips for those of us who might not have the time or energy to dive fully into these protocols but still want to support our brain health as we age. Small changes, like reducing sugar, incorporating strength training, and maintaining healthy sleep habits, can make a big difference.
For those of us feeling overwhelmed by the idea of reducing toxins in our environment, Karen gives us approachable steps to take, like investing in a water filter, checking air quality, and even something as simple as taking off our shoes when we come home.
We wrap up with a conversation about our favorite new snack—Matcha Guardians energy bars! Karen played a big role in creating these nutrient-packed bars, which are as delicious as they are wholesome. It’s another example of how she continues to inspire us to prioritize our health, even when life gets busy.
Matcha Guardians Karen
Speakers: Diana Weil, Elara Hadjipateras, Karen Malkin, & Jon Gay
Voiceover (00:00):
Welcome to the Matcha Guardians Podcast, brought to you by matcha.com. Here we focus on the biggest trending health topics of our time, featuring the greatest and upcoming wellness advocates. Now here are the Matcha Guardians, licensed dietitian, Diana Weil and medical journalist, Elara Hadjipateras.
Elara Hadjipateras (00:20):
Hello-hello and welcome to this week's episode of The Matcha Guardians.
Diana Weil (00:24):
I am so excited for our guest today. It is someone who I have known for a long time, and I have looked up to for many years. Today we have Karen Malkin on our podcast. She has a Masters of Arts in Health and Wellness Coaching from the Maryland University of Integrative Health and is a certified integrative health coach through the University of Arizona Center for Integrative Medicine.
She's also a certified Apollo health coach, and she specializes in cognitive decline. She's a board-certified holistic health counselor with the American Association of Drugless Practitioners. She has an extensive background and many certifications and degrees, including in eating psychology and precision medicine.
She's also a board member of the Environmental Working Group and serves on the Philanthropic Council for Northwestern Memorial Hospital Center for Integrative Medicine and Wellness. That is a mouthful.
She's a thought leader in the field. She's contributed to integrativepractitioner.com, authored the My Wellness Coach app, and has been featured in various health publications. Karen, we are so excited to have you here and learn from your wisdom.
Karen Malkin (01:28):
Thank you so much for having me on the podcast.
Elara Hadjipateras (01:31):
So, Karen, I don't know too much about your history. I know that you and Diana have a bit more history than we do. So, how did you kind of get into health coaching? I know it's a lot more than just necessarily getting the degree. What led you there?
Karen Malkin (01:44):
From a very young age, I've always had an interest for vitality, feeling vital and really learned the connection between mind, body, what I eat, how I feel, how I moved my body, how I felt, and just really learned that whole mind body connection and to really pay attention to it.
And so, my teenage years were all about movement and healthy eating. And my son, my young … I have four sons. My youngest son yesterday said to me that he seems to think that I have more energy than all four of them combined. And I think I crave that. I really desire feeling great in my body.
Diana Weil (02:28):
Okay. I just have to pause. I mean, I want to talk about all the health stuff, but Elara and I both have boys. And when I found out that I was having a boy, immediately, I panicked because just of how busy they are. You have four of them and you are here, you survived. Do you have any advice for the energy that's required to raise four boys?
Karen Malkin (02:44):
I loved it. I would've had a fifth. I had twins, and then 18 months later I had another one. And then three years later, another one. They're very physical, so balls are flying, running around. It was just a very physical experience with the four of them. And that's kind of just the way I am. And they're so easy, emotionally, they're much easier, I think, than girls. And they love their mommies, and my boys are so close to each other. I'm just so grateful.
Jon Gay (03:16):
I'm 43 and I still love my mom very much. And there were definitely a lot of actions between my brother and I. We were two boys growing up in the same house. So, I agree with everything you're saying, Karen.
Karen Malkin (03:26):
That makes me happy to know.
Diana Weil (03:28):
So, not only did you have four boys, but you had twins. Can we just pause to appreciate?
Elara Hadjipateras (03:33):
Take a moment of appreciation for Karen. I mean, do you feel like you've blocked it out or do you remember that time, the first year with the twins?
Karen Malkin (03:42):
I sort of didn't know any different. I was nursing them both. I'd pump and give them a bottle. The other one was on the breast. We have a large family, and my memories are having my family surrounding me all the time and helping.
And I had a lot of help. I had my mom around; I had my mother-in-law. I had my other mother-in-law around. And I just — cousins, I feel like I had a lot of help with the twins. It was hard, but I kind of didn't know any different. And then when I had Danny, it was easy.
Elara Hadjipateras (04:15):
So, now are you in the Chicago area? Are you in Chicago?
Karen Malkin (04:18):
Yes, I'm in the suburbs of Chicago and I raised my four sons here.
Elara Hadjipateras (04:22):
And now do you have a lot of your extended family still in the area?
Karen Malkin (04:26):
I do. My siblings are here. My parents are no longer with us, and I'm sure we'll get to talk about that today. But my in-laws are here, although they do spend the winters in Palm Springs, California, and we winter in Tucson, which is where I got to get connected to the Andrew Weil Center for Integrative Medicine.
Diana Weil (04:46):
Yeah. So, I'm curious about that. Did you always know about integrative medicine? Or what was your journey into integrative medicine?
Karen Malkin (04:53):
So, because of this mind body connection that I seem to have always felt that I had, I really always saw more natural holistic providers, but they were integrative medicine physicians who spoke about nutrition, who spoke about stress and sleep and exercise and what feeds your soul and your mental health.
Whereas more of the conventional practitioners that I would see, and I still do see, for my annual, I really mostly see all my integrative practitioners. It's symptom management. So, you come with a complaint, and they'll give you medicine for that complaint and for that symptom. And for me, that's not what I wanted. I wanted a more natural way.
And integrative medicine is still medicine. It just really is under the premise that we work on the least invasive methods first to help heal your condition. And it's also under the promise that the body has its natural ability to heal itself.
And I do believe that, if we just give it a chance, I mean, Dr. Weil's been talking about this since the 70s. What he wrote in the 70s still stands true today and is still what he's teaching in with all of his practitioners and in the fellowship.
So, and it's kind of coming full circle now. And I think what I'm really inspired to know is that integrative medicine is becoming good medicine.
And more conventional western medicine practitioners are beginning to realize, and many of them just through their own and of one, personal experience from their own health conditions, is that they start to realize that when they do look at these areas of health, your nutrition, exercise, sleep, especially your relationships, the environment, so many of these neurological conditions are from environmental toxins.
And we really need to look at that to pay attention to our overall wellness and health.
Elara Hadjipateras (07:00):
Guys, I'm going to just throw in a curve ball right here, but you just made me think of it. Karen, what is your opinion on how Wi-Fi signals might impact people's health? I keep seeing this all over the place, and I'm finding myself, should I have a little timer on my Wi-Fi router and have it be turning off at night? Am I frying my baby's brain? I, of course don't believe everything I see on TikTok and Instagram. There's a lot of fear mongering, but-
Karen Malkin (07:23):
There is a lot of fear mongering. We don't have enough evidence to necessarily know, but there are people that are more sensitive to EMFs. I mean, it's just a fact. And if you can turn off your router at 10 o'clock at night and have it turned back on again at six in the morning, I think if you could do it, I would highly recommend it.
Elara Hadjipateras (07:46):
Okay.
Jon Gay (07:47):
And Karen, when you say EMFs, you mean electromagnetic fields, right?
Karen Malkin (07:50):
Yes. This is why I'm wearing my wired headphones because I’m minimizing Bluetooth, I'm not saying — it's not perfect, but when I can, I'll use wired, when I can, I certainly keep … I don't put my phone on my person body, every inch away from your body that the cell phone is, is going to dramatically reduce your exposure. So, why not do it?
Elara Hadjipateras (08:15):
I'm sold, I'm going to get my little timer to put on my router then.
Karen Malkin (08:18):
We do have a lot more increases in brain cancers and putting your … I can't believe putting your cell phone to your head can be healthy.
Elara Hadjipateras (08:27):
I agree with that.
Karen Malkin (08:27):
And when your cell phone has the least bars, when you're three bars, you've got good service. When it's only one bar, your phone's got to work really hard to make that connection. So, I tend to just avoid the call if it's only one bar.
Diana Weil (08:42):
Karen, one of the ways that we got connected was that you were the first person that I knew who was a health coach, and I came to you with kind of looking for career advice and I feel like you became a health coach before the rest of the world really even knew what health coaching was.
Was it a scary dive into the health coaching? Or were you just convinced that this was the way of the future? I'm curious, just you did it before it became cool, kind of.
Karen Malkin (09:07):
Well, I think what really inspired me with health coaching is that it helps people create behavior change. So, you could go to your practitioner, and it'll be more of a directive approach to say to you, okay, you want to get your lipids down, lose 20 pounds, or your sugars are too high, get your A1C down to 5.3, you’re at 6.0, you got to cut back on your sugar.
But people don't know how to do it. You can say, this is what you need to do. But what a health coach does is a health coach will teach you how to do it. And it's a partnership. So, you're the expert, not me; I'm the guide on the side.
I'm trained in motivational interviewing, which is going to help you evoke from within yourself what it is that you're really wanting to do. And it starts with goal setting, we'll start with a vision map where I might ask you, “Okay, Diana, wave your magic wand. How do you want your life to be in three months, six months? How do you want to feel?”
Because unless we can articulate where we want to go, it's hard to get there. It's kind of like you have a map, you're in the mall, you're here, but you want to go there. Well, how am I going to get there? And that's what coaching does, is it helps you get to where you want to go by making small changes.
Diana Weil (10:33):
Yeah, I'm all about that. And in three months I would like to be sleeping. That's my goal.
Karen Malkin (10:37):
Okay. So, we'll have to talk about small steps that you can take.
Elara Hadjipateras (10:40):
Wishful thinking, Diana, wishful thinking.
Karen Malkin (10:42):
To help you get some more minutes of sleep.
Diana Weil (10:46):
I feel like coaching as a business has kind of boomed and now there's coaches for everything. There's sleep coaches and parent coaches and health coaches and business coaches. Do you feel like we're doing a good job by having coaches for all these different things? Or do you think that there's any aspect of it that's like, hmm, I don't know if that's helpful?
Karen Malkin (11:05):
I love coaching. I think it's fabulous. They have to be coaches that are qualified, and they know motivational interviewing. They understand the guidelines of coaching to create a very safe space for the client to make sure that you understand as a coach biases, there's ethical considerations, there's cultural considerations.
So, with proper training, I think coaching's fabulous. I think it's really going to help a lot of people create behavior change. I really do.
Elara Hadjipateras (11:35):
Does anyone feel, at least the perspective that my husband brings into the picture is “Why do you need to hire a health coach, Elara? You have the internet; you are a researcher in health and wellness. Can't you just get it together and do it yourself? Can't you just come up with the goals three months from now?”
At least that's something I hear from my spouse lot. And I don't know if any of you feel the same way, but there's a feeling of why can't I just figure it out myself? Isn't that the point? Isn't that why I selected my partner?
Because maybe he's going to compliment where I fall short and help me set and reach these new goals. And has there ever been a situation, Karen, where you as a health coach have had to deal with say, a not so happy spouse kind of saying, “Hey, you're kind of entering my turf here. I'm supposed to be this person's main guiding light, or I'm supposed to be their best friend and their life coach, and then you're kind of coming in here into my space.” Have you run into that at all with clients?
Karen Malkin (12:35):
I love support and one of the questions I ask my clients is, “Who's your support system? Who are the people that are going to stretch you, that are going to support you?” I really appreciate that, and I welcome that because I think we all need our people.
I mean, clearly the two of you, I listened to your relationship podcast, you have each other, you support each other, you stretch each other, you call each other out on stuff. We need those people in our life.
And for me, I listen, I ask powerful questions, and I try to evoke from within what it is that you really already know as the expert. So, sometimes we get in our own way, you know what to do, we all know what to do.
It's meet with a client around weight loss; they know they should be eating more vegetables, they know they should be drinking more water. How am I getting in my own way? And that's where we have conversations around maybe there might be another time in your life that you have overcome this obstacle and how can we pull on those character strengths from then and apply it to now.
So, it's really interesting because you can learn a lot about yourself. So, I welcome the support system. I really do.
Diana Weil (13:57):
One of the things that you brought up earlier is sort of the ethical implications of being a coach. And I feel like because there are so many coaches that are life coaches and business coaches and a doctor has very clear, they have to follow HIPAA.
Whereas a health coach or a coach doesn't necessarily have very strict, this is how we behave in the field. What are some of the ethical implications or what advice would you give to someone who is looking to be a coach around how to be an ethical health coach?
Karen Malkin (14:31):
Well, we do learn ethics in our training. And so, there is a national board exam and that's from national board health and wellness coaches that I highly recommend if you're going to use a coach in the health coach world, that you hire a health coach that is national board certified.
Because we do go through the ethics that's talking about client confidentiality, creating a safe space, nonjudgmental, and really get clear around our own biases because we all have biases. It's almost impossible to be completely unbiased.
But understanding the biases, also understanding some of the cultural differences that we have. And we have to take all of that into consideration when we are prioritizing that. Some of our clients don't have the same type of education that we have, and we really want to be honest, we want to lead with integrity, and we want to help empower the client. And it's also very important to keep our professional boundaries as well.
So, informed consent, we understand our scope of practice. I'm a health coach. I'm not a psychologist, and there's a difference. And I will share that with my clients. And that with health coaching, we start with where we are today and where we want to be. I don't go back.
Doing psychotherapy, that would be for a therapist and there's great value in a therapist as well, but it's different with coaching.
Elara Hadjipateras (16:06):
So, I would love having lots of coaches in my life. I would love it. I would love it. I would love to have my sleep coach, my health coach, everything. I would take all the coaches in the world. I love it. I'm a golden retriever. I love positive feedback. I love people just cheering me on. That's what I need in my life.
Now what about this scenario? Because of the budget, I have to choose physical trainer or health coach. What's the argument for three simple things that come to mind for why go with the health coach over at the physical trainer in the example of, say, a woman who's post-partum?
Karen Malkin (16:41):
Well, okay, I'll say it depends. What is your goal? Why do you want to hire a health coach post-partum?
Elara Hadjipateras (16:49):
To feel like myself again and feel like my body is mine again.
Karen Malkin (16:53):
Okay. Say more about that.
Elara Hadjipateras (16:55):
I think one of the things I really struggled with through the whole pregnancy journey is how much weight I gained and how different my body felt afterwards. Because that's always been something that I've really taken ownership of and a lot of pride.
Throughout my life, I'm that person that people would, “Oh, hey, what do you do for your arms? You know, what do you do to stay in shape?” I've not been asked that question for several months. Surprising, I know.
And I think that I'm running on a short amount of sleep. My leash is tight as far as how much time I have per day to kind of dedicate to myself and not just to my son or my husband or the house or work.
So, it's about, I don't know, just being better about carving out my me time and in a productive way. Not just like, “Oh, I'm going to go and get my nails done or I'm going to go and get my hair cut.” But something that's a bit more… has longevity and builds consistency.
Karen Malkin (17:48):
So, what I'm hearing you say is that you put on a lot of weight during pregnancy. You don't feel good in your body right now. You're finding that there's not a lot of time for you and you kind of like to prioritize a little bit of self-care right now.
Elara Hadjipateras (18:06):
Yeah, exactly. Diana, can you relate to that as well?
Karen Malkin (18:09):
I was like, “She's really speaking to me!”
Jon Gay (18:11):
She's been nodding this whole time. Diana's been nodding the whole time Elara’s been speaking.
Diana Weil (18:16):
I’m like, “Yeah, yes Karen, you get it.”
Elara Hadjipateras (18:19):
But it's basic, it's a basic thing. It goes back to what you were saying, people know, lose 20 pounds, eat healthier. It's like we know all these things. I know I should get up or be doing a workout while the baby's sleeping. Easier said than done. Easier said than done.
Karen Malkin (18:35):
Yeah. And I want to encourage you to be careful of “should” and “should nots,” and really think about what's one thing that you can do. So, let's have a little coaching session here. Where would you want to start?
Elara Hadjipateras (18:48):
I've been very into playing tennis since being post-partum. I love it. My husband does not share the same passion for tennis that I do. So, if he had it his way, I'd be going to the CrossFit gym with him. Or he'd be paying for a personal trainer. He's like, he has no problem spending money on that.
But spending money on more than a private tennis lesson once or twice a week, the red flags go up. Like no, I don't want to pay for that. And he would much rather say, “You can go out and go for a run. That's kind of the same thing as tennis.”
And for me it's not, I kind of like this idea that I'm learning this new skill, it kind of tricks you into it being, it's about more than just breaking a sweat and losing weight. It's about your state of mind. And I used to be a competitive athlete, so I just feel like tennis for me has unlocked that.
Karen Malkin (19:32):
How you want to improve your fitness, how is that conflicting with how your husband values fitness and his overall health and how might that be getting in the way of you taking that next step?
Elara Hadjipateras (19:49):
I think it has to do with logistics, proximity. So, for me, tennis, it's a five-minute drive from the house. For CrossFit, that's a 25-minute drive from the house. And it's just like I start doing Mom Math in my head and thinking, “Okay, with this I can go, I'm back, boom, boom, hour and a half. I have my me time. Versus the CrossFit, I'm kind of losing two and a half hours. It's a two and a half hour time slot. I just do not have the time for that.”
That's what I'm telling myself at least. That's the conversation I'm having. This is being said, I have a basement with a gym and weights that I could easily use. But my husband loves the camaraderie of us going to the CrossFit gym together. Which Diana, you can relate to that. You and Harley love working out together too.
Karen Malkin (20:32):
So, he likes the connection for the two of you.
Elara Hadjipateras (20:35):
He loves the connection, and he misses it. And I'm like, “Well just come play tennis with me,” which he has started to do from time to time. So, I think it's a process, but-
Karen Malkin (20:43):
There's a bit of a conflict there with you really wanting to have the 10-minute drive there and back, get it done, be home for the baby.
Elara Hadjipateras (20:52):
I have a proximity thing where it's like, God forbid anything happens. I like-
Karen Malkin (20:56):
Being close.
Elara Hadjipateras (20:56):
Being close. Which I don't know, does that go away with time, Karen? Like with …
Karen Malkin (21:01):
I don't think so. I don't think so. You always want to know that they can reach you.
Elara Hadjipateras (21:07):
Yes, exactly. It's that mentality. I just know that when I'm in a CrossFit with weights, I'm like, I'm not thinking about my cell phone. I'm not. Versus tennis is a bit more, you'll hear the phone ringing.
Karen Malkin (21:17):
And maybe that will evolve over time. You are a new mom.
Elara Hadjipateras (21:20):
Exactly. Yeah. So, part of me also understands this is kind of just like the name of the game that I got myself into, so-
Karen Malkin (21:26):
So, what's your current fitness schedule today?
Elara Hadjipateras (21:28):
Current fitness schedule today is tennis usually twice a week for an hour and a half. I'll do yoga at least once a week. And then I try and go to at least one CrossFit class and I'm walking at least 90 minutes a day. So, it's pretty good. It's pretty good.
Karen Malkin (21:41):
So, on a scale from 1 to 10, how satisfied are you with that?
Elara Hadjipateras (21:45):
Like a 4 because I'm a two-stroke engine. I need three to four hours a day.
Karen Malkin (21:50):
Got it. Okay.
Elara Hadjipateras (21:51):
I think my son's going to catch up with me is what I'm hoping now because he is starting to walk. So, I think that that might help me channel some energy. Move a little more.
Karen Malkin (21:59):
Where would you like to be on a scale from 1 to 10 given that you have a new baby at home?
Elara Hadjipateras (22:05):
I'd like to be on a scale. I'd like to weigh a hundred — I'd like to weigh what I … we were talking about this; we need to expand that scale spectrum. I think I'd like to be at a seven. I think a seven feels good. And also like I can maintain that and I'm not just going to fall off the wagon if I get sick or hurt or he has a sleep regression.
Karen Malkin (22:25):
So, what would it take for you to get from a four to a seven?
Elara Hadjipateras (22:28):
I just have to commit. I just kind of have to force myself to stick to the things I want to do. That's as simple as that. Like you're saying goal setting, I have goals in mind, and I just have to reach them.
Karen Malkin (22:40):
What does that look like?
Elara Hadjipateras (22:42):
I like to write things down. I'm a list writer. So, I'll probably write down my list of the five things I like to do for the day and include them as one of the five things and make sure I check that off my list and check it off earlier in the day rather than later in the day. Because we all know what happens as the day goes on. It snowballs. And if you don't — at least for me, sometimes if I don't do it the first half, I'm not going to do it the second half of the day.
Karen Malkin (23:03):
So, you would want to do something that would be part of your list that would be in the first half of the day? Something physical.
Elara Hadjipateras (23:08):
Yes. Something physical.
Karen Malkin (23:10):
And what would that look like?
Elara Hadjipateras (23:11):
Just be able to go to a yoga class in the morning, a hot yoga class and just be around different people just all together, breathing, sweating. That to me is nice. I love group fitness. I was a yoga instructor. So, I want to get back into building my self-practice so that I can start teaching again. I think that will help things fall into place as well.
Karen Malkin (23:34):
And when is hot yoga offered?
Elara Hadjipateras (23:36):
It's offered in the mornings, midday and early evenings. Which early evenings are out because I'm a bedtime routine master. And then early mornings have been tough because we've been going through sleep regression and he's been very mommy, mommy, mommy.
So, I have the guilt where I don't want to leave him. I probably could and he'd be fine with my husband. And then midday, it's usually when I'm working, or I have calls because I'm working with the West Coast. These are the excuses I make.
Karen Malkin (24:08):
Yeah. I mean, also on a scale from 1 to 10, how important is it for you to get to yoga in the mornings?
Elara Hadjipateras (24:13):
It's like a two because I'm like-
Karen Malkin (24:15):
It's a two.
Elara Hadjipateras (24:16):
I start being like, well I can do yoga here. But that's what I'm ranking it. But maybe it should have a higher value. I don't value my stuff enough, might be my issue.
Karen Malkin (24:27):
Well, I think what it is for you and with coaching we talk about, how important is this behavior change? So, this behavior change that you're saying you want to make is to exercise in the mornings?
Elara Hadjipateras (24:40):
Get up and exercise in the morning.
Karen Malkin (24:41):
Get up and do something.
Elara Hadjipateras (24:41):
Before my husband leaves for work, before anything gets started.
Karen Malkin (24:46):
So, I'm helping you articulate what that would look like because unless you get a clear vision of what that's going to look like and understand how important is this for me on a scale of 1 to 10? Because if it's a two, it's not happening. Right?
Elara Hadjipateras (24:57):
Yeah.
Karen Malkin (24:58):
And then also you have to look at how likely is this to happen? And it sounds like, well, it's probably not likely because of the sleep progression currently that's going on. So, maybe this is not a realistic goal.
So, I'm trying to help you try to find a realistic goal that's going to help you move the needle forward so that you can increase your fitness, so you can feel better in your body. You can lose some of the baby weight and you'll be happy.
Elara Hadjipateras (25:24):
Yeah. I love that. Well, there you go. Example of a small-
Karen Malkin (25:27):
Example of a coaching session.
Diana Weil (25:30):
I think that that was helpful for anyone who wants to be a coach because Karen, you asked such good questions. And for anyone who is curious about coaching, because I think that they can ask themselves, what are my answers to those questions? And would it be helpful for someone to ask me those and hold me accountable and help me figure out a plan? So, I actually really loved that.
Jon Gay (25:48):
I think it's good too because some people sometimes have preconceived notions about coaching and it was nice to kind of go under the hood a little bit with Karen there. So, take you inside a session and what that might look like in terms of question and answer and feedback. I think that was really helpful too.
Elara Hadjipateras (26:02):
I love Karen, when I would say something, you'd say, “Well, so probably what you're actually mean to say is that,” which is exactly that. I think that we weave these narratives in our minds that once again, all the answers are inside. It's just that we kind of create these barriers and obstacles within our own minds.
Karen Malkin (26:21):
We do. And what we didn't do is start with creating your vision. I mean, I sort of hear the vision from you with your priority being your baby. I typically will start our session with what is most important to you in your life.
How do you want to show up? What are you most proud of? You might be most proud of being a mom. How do you want to be remembered? Why do you want your health? What does self-care mean to you? What does that look like?
And it's really amazing when I work with my clients, and they talk about their vision and the people and the things that are most important to them. And then we make these day-to-day choices that aren't in alignment with the big picture.
And I did this, it was really powerful during my coaching training with my coaching team, is because what I thought I was looking for and the choices I was making were not in alignment with what was most important to me and my values.
We tend to make these choices that aren't really going to get you where you want to go. Yeah. And just tie it back, tie it back to the vision. And that's where I keep reminding them, I know the vision, let's talk about it. How does that tie to that?
That really also inspires people to just make those different choices. Maybe what you want to do and currently is really important to you to get that buff body back and exercise as much as you can.
But maybe deep down, and I don't want to speak for you, but if that baby is number one and you don't want to leave in the morning because there's sleep issues and you can leave him with your husband, you could easily leave him with somebody who loves him just as much as you do. But so-
Elara Hadjipateras (28:10):
Does he though. Does he? No, I'm just kidding.
Karen Malkin (28:12):
Yeah, I know. It's probably true.
Diana Weil (28:13):
Karen, I know that you've worked with a lot of athletes, obviously just gave us such a beautiful example of traditional health coaching with more weight loss, which I'm sure a lot of people are very grateful for. But I also know that you have gotten really into brain health and that's definitely something that I want to touch on with you. Can you share with us a little bit about your journey into brain health and cognitive functioning?
Karen Malkin (28:36):
I lost my father to complications of Alzheimer's disease, and I lost my mom to lung cancer. And both of them really inspired me to research and get into more integrative approaches to healing.
So, Dr. Dale Bredesen, I heard him speak actually at one of the nutrition conferences from the Andrew Weil Center of Integrative Medicine back in 2017, was really intrigued by his research in lifestyle strategies to help prevent and reverse mild cognitive impairment and even Alzheimer's disease.
So, I started to follow him, and I also heard him speak at other conferences. I really wanted to hire him to be my own practitioner because of my dad's Alzheimer's disease. I wanted to help prevent. But at the time, he wasn't really seeing clients. So, I decided to become a practitioner.
And I spent a couple years doing the ReCODE 1.0 and 2.0 training. And it's a lifestyle approach to helping really improve your brain health and slow the progression of cognitive decline. His name is Dr. Dale Bredesen. He's authored at least three books.
One is called The End of Alzheimer's. His company, that he's the chief scientific officer for, is called Apollo Health. And his protocol is called ReCODE and PreCODE. ReCODE is reversing cognitive decline and PreCODE is prevention of cognitive decline.
What that is, is you sign up online at Apollo Health, you become a member. They send you a prescription to Quest Labs for a blood draw. There's probably 15 tubes of blood that they're going to draw. So, they can get a lot of biomarkers on you in addition to your APOE4 status. APOE4 is a gene that one, you can get a copy from your mom, a copy from your dad. You have two copies of your genetics.
And the APOE4 impacts lipid metabolism, but it also increases your risk for Alzheimer's disease. With Apollo, on the Apollo Health, you also take a cognitive test that can show you where you are right now in addition to having your care partner or your significant other do a questionnaire. There's a very comprehensive health intake.
Starting from: were you delivered early, sleep apnea, do you snore? What's your environmental exposure, insulin resistance, there's so many questions.
And then from that information, Apollo Health is going to spit out about a 54 to 58 page report. And that's called your ReCODE or PreCODE report. The client gets it: complete overwhelm. So, what I do as a coach is, I walk them through that ReCODE report. And he categorizes it, red, yellow, green, the red is where you need to start now. And then the green area is kind of you're in good shape.
And my clients are doing so well. Pretty much all of them are really kind of like all in with the behavior change. They are inspired to do the program.
Categories that he divides you into is inflammation, which could be leaky gut or infections, the APOE4 status. There's a glycotoxicity, which is insulin resistance. Your brain feeds on either ketones or glucose, and ketones are a more efficient fuel source for your brain.
So, depending on your glucose, your blood sugar, your A1C, we really have to get that in place so that we can help support a healthy brain. And then there's trophic loss, which is nutrient loss and your vitamin D levels.
Toxicity is another one. A lot of my clients have toxic related dementia. It's very difficult to do. We have to play detective because it could be exposure to heavy metals, inorganic organic mercury, could be from your fish, could be in the mercury amalgam fillings.
So, he often recommends taking those out. There's Lyme biotoxins that you could be exposed to with these infections. Mold is a big one, checking their home for mold, organic chemicals, VOCs, toluene, benzene.
Then there's vascular dementia, which is your blood flow, and that's your lipids, your cardiovascular health. And also sleep apnea is a big one. And your oxygen saturation. So, we talk about how you're sleeping, getting maybe an oximeter, potentially doing an overnight sleep study if there's snoring involved. There's a lot of questions you have to ask. And there's, you have a lot of digging.
And then there's trauma. And that could be trauma to the head. Like concussions. I've had two concussions already from bike accidents. And then you have athletes, football players and yeah, people have car accidents.
And so, that could be another contributing factor. And so, with the protocol, and we start with recommendations for, we start with nutrition, and he calls it KetoFLEX 12/3. You want to get into a modified ketogenic state.
So, that would mean eating dinner early, no food within three hours of going to bed, and then having a 12-hour overnight fast. If you do have a copy or two copies of APOE4, Dr. Bredesen does recommend a 14 to 16-hour overnight fast to really get those sugars intact.
And we'll talk about exercise because exercise is powerful for brain health, mental health because cardiovascular exercise raises BDNF, it's brain derived neurotrophic factor like neurons, it's like fires and neurons in the brain.
You probably know, I'm sure you both know full on because you're both really passionate about exercise that you know how good you feel after you're exercising. And then there's strength training, which helps with executive functioning and also supports muscle and bone, which is very important for your brain health.
And then there's sleep. I'm wearing my Oura ring. Do you guys wear sleep tracking devices or Apple watch?
Elara Hadjipateras (34:59):
I do. I have the Polar Ignite watch. But I take it off a lot when I'm around with the baby, but I put it on at night.
Karen Malkin (35:05):
Yeah. And so, looking at your sleep and your deep sleep, which is your most restorative sleep and your REM sleep, which is when your brain's doing all the creative thinking, and you want enough quantity of sleep as well. And it really plays an impact on your cognition.
And then stress, stress elevates cortisol, insulin, track cortisol and really making sure that we're doing our deep breathing and we're really trying to manage our stress. And then there's brain stimulation, which is like brain games.
There's a company called, an app called, BrainHQ. And that got a lot of research behind it and there's a lot of different areas of the app to work on between visual processing, memory consolidation, word retrieval, visual space. I mean there's just so many categories.
And then detoxification is a big one because if we do have exposure to toxins, we have to talk about a detoxification protocol through sweating, potential supplements that Dr. Bredesen is recommending. Glutathione, I mean it's pretty very comprehensive. And then there's supplements to fill the nutrient voids.
Jon Gay (36:15):
I have to jump in real quick. You mentioned that BrainHQ app, Karen. My wife and I make it a point to do the New York Times crossword puzzle daily every night on the iPad because we just want to — and we figure every little bit of brain simulation at night helps especially after working all day. Like we're trying to keep ourselves sharp.
I mean, it's much smaller than what you're talking about, but is that a good piece of it? A good idea?
Karen Malkin (36:35):
Yes. I absolutely love that. That's great. And do things that you love.
Jon Gay (36:39):
Yeah, we like doing the crossword together.
Karen Malkin (36:40):
Yeah.
Elara Hadjipateras (36:42):
Crossword. Wordle. You guys Wordlers?
Jon Gay (36:44):
Yeah. She had a year streak, and she lost it and she's like, “Forget it. I'm …
Diana Weil (36:48):
Oh, no.
Elara Hadjipateras (36:49):
I understand that feeling. I understand that feeling. Yeah. It's just not the same when you lose…
Jon Gay (36:53):
Competitive like you Elara.
Elara Hadjipateras (36:54):
Yeah. You just got to give it up then.
Diana Weil (36:57):
Okay. Wow, Karen, I mean, even for someone who is very invested in health, that's a lot. And that can feel really overwhelming. And I know that this is the whole piece of the health coaching, of breaking this down, making it feel less intimidating for someone like Elara and I who are getting not a lot of sleep, we don't have a lot of time, we've got new babies.
I mean, what is something that someone who isn't 50, 60, 70 who's really focused on brain health but wants to support brain health as we age, but has a new baby. What advice do you give would you give us?
Elara Hadjipateras (37:30):
And we feel dumb, we feel dumb and forgetful. I go into so many rooms daily forgetting why I went there.
Diana Weil (37:38):
So stupid. We're so stupid.
Elara Hadjipateras (37:39):
So dumb. Very dumb
Karen Malkin (37:41):
Understanding that you're overwhelmed and that there's a lot that you're thinking about. So, you do know where you are and, and what's going on, but minimizing sugar because sugar is not good for the brain.
A little bit here and there along with some fats or along with a meal. But sugar on an empty stomach is going to really spike blood sugar. So, you want to make sure that you're — and I'm sure they are at your age, but get your annual labs. Make sure that your fasting glucose is at a good level. Get your lipids, do an advanced lipid panel, get a baseline, strength train, exercise, fires the neurons, helps with executive functioning. Try-
Elara Hadjipateras (38:23):
Karen, are you saying my husband's right, saying I need to do strength training?
Karen Malkin (38:27):
Yes.
Elara Hadjipateras (38:27):
He's right.
Karen Malkin (38:29):
You can be doing squats with your son, right?
Elara Hadjipateras (38:32):
I do do that sometimes. I do at least 50 a day, but-
Karen Malkin (38:35):
Yeah. And you've got your gym in the basement, but it sounds like he wants to connect with you. You have a new baby. He's not your primary focus anymore. That doesn't feel good for him.
Diana Weil (38:45):
Can't wait for Peter to listen to this episode and know that he was-
Elara Hadjipateras (38:48):
He's going to be like, “I was right. See, I was right.” I was going to tell you guys. I'm really motivated right after this podcast. I hate running, but I'm like, “Maybe I'll go for a run,” and then I'm not going to tell my husband because then he'll be like, “I was right. I was right.”
Karen Malkin (39:01):
Small step, small bites of get out there and run for the 20 minutes. Don't make it an hour and a half. An unrealistic goal that you'll feel maybe guilty that you left for so long.
Getting to sleep, minimizing alcohol. Alcohol does not service with brain health. Focusing on some of your stress reduction and maintaining healthy levels of vitamin D is important and healthy relationships and staying connected.
The two of you, you're saying … I mean, I know Diana, you're totally in love with Harley and that's so healthy for the brain and then doing some of these brain games and your podcast is using your brain. So, you're really doing pretty much you're doing it already.
Elara Hadjipateras (39:44):
We’re doing as much as we can Diana, this is what we got.
Diana Weil (39:48):
And this is why we need Jon to set that and ask questions when we're too dumb to do it.
Elara Hadjipateras (39:53):
But he's noticed a decline since …
Jon Gay (39:56):
I will say, I cannot underscore enough what Karen said a moment ago about alcohol. I'm a few years older than Elara and Diane, I'm in my 40s. And the effect that alcohol has on me at 40 plus, and I'm talking like one beer with dinner, it makes such a difference.
I started drinking non-alcoholic beer. If I want to have a beer, occasionally I'll have a cocktail or go out. But I have cut my alcohol intake so far back. And by the way, I lived in New Orleans for three years. I have cut my alcohol intake so much and it has made such a difference in so many areas of my life, Karen.
Karen Malkin (40:30):
So, you notice that.
Jon Gay (40:31):
Physically, yes.
Karen Malkin (40:32):
Right. As you got a little bit older, you're noticing that alcohol's not serving me anymore. I noticed it too and my sleep. But when I look at my Oura ring, I mean my deep sleep tanks when I'm drinking and then I get up in the morning and say I'm not doing that again.
And then of course sometimes I go and do it again. But it's more with intention. I know I'm going to a wedding; I'm going to drink. I know I'm not going to sleep well, but I'm owning it. I'm not being the victim of, “this happened again.”
Jon Gay (40:59):
And we've talked about alcohol in previous episodes of the podcast. The amount of time it takes to cycle through your system. If I have a drink with dinner, I don't sleep well that night, but if I wanted to have a beer watching Sunday football at one o'clock, it's usually cleared my system by the time I go to bed later that night.
Karen Malkin (41:14):
Yeah, that's right. You'll notice that the earlier you have that alcohol, the better you're going to sleep because of those three, four hours to clear your liver and clear your system. That is very true.
Diana Weil (41:29):
Karen, do you recommend that pretty much everyone across the board is on a modified ketogenic diet?
Karen Malkin (41:35):
No, not at all. Especially if you don't have a high enough BMI. I'm not on a modified ketogenic diet and I mostly practice the Bredesen protocol. So, no, I do not.
But for thinking clearly, and if you want to improve your cognition, you can do an experiment. Try it, try eating early, doing that 12-hour overnight fast and notice if you feel better.
But if you're not complaining about anything, whatever you're doing is working for you. That's why there's no one size fits all for anybody. With the Bredesen protocol, with cognitive impairment, yes, this has been proven to really help improve cognition in people that are really not thinking clearly.
Jon Gay (42:20):
I really have to stop grabbing one of the candy bars we have set aside for Halloween at nine o'clock at night when I want a quick snack. We're recording this in early October and after dinner, it's an hour before bed and I'm like, “Oh, let me grab one of those little mini Nestle Crunches.” You've given me like four reasons to stop doing that.
Karen Malkin (42:38):
Well, you can ask yourself, is this serving me? Because sometimes going out for an ice cream cone with your child or your best friend, it's like your partner, that's really fun and it's connection. And then it's, yes, this is serving me.
An hour before bed, the chocolate bar might not serve you because you might not sleep. Your sleep might be impaired from it. So, it's not a matter of like good or bad, I try to not think good/bad, but is this helpful or not helpful for me? And then it takes the guilt out of it. Think about is this helpful or not helpful?
Diana Weil (43:12):
So, another thing that you talk a lot about, and this is, oof, do I get so overwhelmed with this, are the toxins in our home and environment. And a lot of it feels like I just have zero control over and then I spiral. Because it's like-
Jon Gay (43:24):
You two did a whole episode about this.
Diana Weil (43:26):
We did a whole — I know I still am so stressed out about it. Help us, Karen, help us.
Karen Malkin (43:32):
I actually wrote a program called Toxin Takedown. It's 14-day program. Give you one tip each day to help reduce your environmental load. As you know, I'm on the board of the Environmental Working Group and we are surrounded by toxins everywhere.
And just being aware of the air that we're breathing and that's indoor and outdoor. Because oftentimes indoor air quality is so much worse than outdoor air. So, open up your windows. What we're ingesting, what we're eating, what we're drinking.
So, clean filter and water. I recommend everybody get a water purification system. And in order to decide what water purifier you should be getting, you want to know what's in your water. Just like we talked about where do you want to go? Where are you right now? Go to the EWG website, ewg.org/tapwaterdatabase.
Key in your zip code. EWG is going to give you all the contaminants that your municipality has and they're going to tell you the health condition that's associated with that contaminant, which could freak you out a little bit.
But they're also going to give you a filter recommendation that will take out that and remove that contaminant. So, there's a lot you can do. And there's a lot of things we can do from in addition to … I mean, we can't control the environment. We can't control the pollution.
But what we can control what we're drinking, we can control what we're eating. Their EWG also puts out a list called the Dirty Dozen and the Clean Fifteen. And the Dirty Dozen is the 12 most highly contaminated produce items. And strawberries have been number one. I don't remember when they haven't been number one.
And that would mean the number of pesticides that are used on a strawberry and the concentration of the pesticide. So, for me, I just don't eat strawberries out, unless I know they're organic, which in Chicago, they're not organic.
So, I just buy organic for everything. But for sure, I recommend with my clients, use that Dirty Dozen. They can send you a little card, put it in your wallet, buy organic of those 12 items. And then there's a Clean Fifteen. They give you 15 items that all you have to do is wash them. And they're safe.
Jon Gay (45:46):
Karen, I just went to your website, the ewg.org/tapwater and keyed in my zip code. And I'm here in Michigan by the Great Lakes. And in my town, the water is known as pretty good. And I just went to — oh, didn't know about that one, that one, that one, that one, that one, that one, that one. So, again, that website is ewg.org/tapwater. Very insightful.
Karen Malkin (46:05):
Yes. Pesticides that are sprayed on lawns and parks. You taking your babies to the park. Take your shoes off when you get in, because babies are crawling on the ground. Toddlers and babies are on the ground. And if you're walking with your street shoes on, then those contaminants are on your floor. So, again, a really small change is just, take your shoes off. That's a huge upgrade.
Elara Hadjipateras (46:32):
That’s another thing you and my husband agree on, Karen, shoes off in the house.
Karen Malkin (46:35):
Oh, I like him.
Elara Hadjipateras (46:37):
I love him. Love of my life. Love that guy. He’s my better half, clearly.
Karen Malkin (46:42):
We have marital issues because my husband wants carpeting everywhere and I want carpeting nowhere.
Diana Weil (46:46):
I hate carpets, so dirty.
Karen Malkin (46:48):
It's gross. Yeah. So, I have to-
Elara Hadjipateras (46:50):
It's comfortable.
Karen Malkin (46:51):
It’s comfortable. So, you put it in the bedrooms, take your shoes off. And the other thing to look at is your duct work. I don't know if you're in rentals or if you own your home, but make sure that you have your ducts cleaned.
Elara Hadjipateras (47:05):
I finally went through this because I was doing a bunch of things to get the house baby ready. And I was very disturbed at the state of my ducts. And I didn't realize they hadn't been cleaned for years.
Karen Malkin (47:16):
Yes. And some HVAC companies, which this also happened with me, when I would call for my annual duct cleaning, the response by them was, “We just do a partial duct cleaning, Karen. You didn't say you wanted a full duct cleaning.”
And I'm thinking, I didn't even know where there's a difference. I just asked for duct cleaning. So, pay attention to, if they're doing a full duct clean, sometimes it could take up to two to three days to do a full duct clean.
Elara Hadjipateras (47:40):
For them to … they blow them out. They change the filters.
Karen Malkin (47:43):
Yep. Yes. Everything.
Jon Gay (47:44):
So, you're telling us to keep our ducts in a row. (laughter)
Karen Malkin (47:47):
Keep your ducts in a row. I also use an air purifier in my bedroom. I don't know if any of you have allergies or your kids. But having an air purifier, those are huge upgrades that you can do every day. Simple.
Elara Hadjipateras (48:01):
Empowering.
Karen Malkin (48:02):
Yeah. There's a lot we can do that can really open big doors and help us live a lot healthier.
Elara Hadjipateras (48:08):
Well, the other thing that's been really helpful to Diana and myself, Diana, I'm going to speak for you here, is Karen's Matcha energy bars.
Diana Weil (48:15):
Yes.
Diana Weil (48:18):
There we go. There it is. In collaboration with none other than matcha.com. And they're absolutely delicious. I try my best not to eat packaged goods that have more than a dozen ingredients on them.
So, it's just so amazing to have something that I'm just like, I know this is exactly what's in it. You can taste each and every single ingredient. And as a busy mom, it's just great to be able to grab something that I know is going to give me energy and not make me crash later on.
Diana Weil (48:42):
I don't even like bars, and I love this bar. I'm not a bar person. I don't want a bar. But I have been reaching for these bars almost every day because I've been hungry and they're delicious. I love them. And they have what, six grams of fiber in them?
Karen Malkin (48:55):
Yeah. There's six grams of fiber. There's protein … or five grams of fiber. There's eight grams of protein. It's just matcha, almonds, cacao chunks without sugar, dates and cherries. It tastes like a chocolate cherry bar.
Jon Gay (49:13):
I'm sold.
Diana Weil (49:14):
It's so good. Yeah. Jon, you got to try some. Before we started this podcast, you were sharing a little bit about the journey to get to these bars. And I think it's so funny. Can you tell us how hard you work to get these bars?
Karen Malkin (49:28):
I think we've been working on this for close to two years. So, we would talk about the ingredients that we want in the bars. And this was something that Dr. Weil wanted to have along with his matcha.
He wanted to have something sweet and delicious because I make these homemade bars, and I think he really likes my homemade goods. So, he wanted to like, let's make a matcha bar.
So, it was 28 versions, and we would make it, sent it to the team. What do you think? Everyone else was like, yeah, thumbs up, thumbs up. Andy says, “Not sweet enough. Go back to the drawing board, make it sweeter. Add more maple syrup. What can we do here?”
We kept coming back and he kept wanting them to be sweeter, sweeter. And then, we finally got it. Finally got it right.
Diana Weil (50:14):
And I love them because it does taste like a treat, but it's not overly sweet. It doesn't feel indulgent. I mean, it does, but it's not actually indulgent.
Karen Malkin (50:23):
Yeah. It's not really that sweet at all because we add just a little bit maple syrup and then we had a little bit more, a little bit more. But it is really just a delicious bar. It's got the matcha, it's got all those antioxidants. It's got l-theanine, which gives you this calm alertness and you don't get the crash with the matcha. I hope it's a success.
Elara Hadjipateras (50:45):
I love putting mine in the fridge because I find that when I have them cold, it brings out the sweetness.
Karen Malkin (50:51):
Yeah, me too. I keep them cold.
Elara Hadjipateras (50:53):
So good.
Diana Weil (50:54):
And Karen, you were one of the first early supporters of matcha. Weren't you buying caseloads of matcha at the start?
Karen Malkin (51:01):
Okay, so that's another funny story. When I saw Andy, when I knew the matcha product had just come out I bought, oh my God, I'm embarrassed to tell you how much money I spent on matcha, but it was well over a thousand dollars. And Andre reached out to Andy, and he is like, “Some woman in Chicago just bought $1,500 worth of matcha.” And Andy goes, “Oh, I think I know who it is.”
Diana Weil (51:36):
Matcha exists because of Karen.
Karen Malkin (51:37):
Oh my God. I drink it every day. I give it to people. I love this matcha. It is so high quality. It's organic, it's just beautiful, bright green and so delicious. I've been drinking it every day.
Diana Weil (51:50):
And now we have these incredible bars.
Karen Malkin (51:52):
I add a little bit of creatine to it now for some brain health and to support muscle and can't taste it. Sometimes I'll add a little collagen and just great. It's my favorite morning drink.
Elara Hadjipateras (52:04):
It's so versatile. I love it.
Karen Malkin (52:06):
Yeah.
Elara Hadjipateras (52:07):
And now we can eat it too.
Diana Weil (52:09):
We can eat it.
Karen Malkin (52:10):
That's right.
Diana Weil (52:11):
Well, Karen, I mean, truly, I mean, we say this about pretty much everyone who comes on here, but I actually do have about a hundred more questions for you, but we are running out of time. So, we always like to end our podcast with two questions. We did not prep you for these. Feel free to take as much time as you need to answer. So, the first question is, what is a life lesson that you have had to learn the hard way?
Karen Malkin (52:35):
Boundaries, still working on that. Boundaries are so healthy. It is a part of overall health and your mental health. And healthy boundaries are really you expressing what's okay and what's not okay.
And going through this health coaching journey with my own health coaching team during my training, when I peeled back the layers of the onion, that was what I really learned about myself is like, I don't have clear boundaries. It's a journey, but I'm working on it.
Elara Hadjipateras (53:13):
Our follow up question we like to ask after that is, what is a mantra of yours right now? Maybe something that you picked up from some family or friend that's really serving you at the moment.
Karen Malkin (53:25):
I think I tell myself you are good enough just the way you are. It's all good. You are good enough.
Elara Hadjipateras (53:35):
We should say that to ourselves more often, shouldn’t we? Karen, once again, thank you so much for the last hour. It's been really informative, and I hope that we can drag you back on here for another episode because as Diana said, we have lots of more questions that we didn't even have a chance to get to today.
Karen Malkin (53:51):
I would love it. That would be really fun. We can talk about longevity protocols.
Diana Weil (53:55):
Yes. So, if someone wants to work with you, where can they find you and where can people find the bars?
Karen Malkin (54:02):
So, my website is karenmalkin.com. And that's where they can find me and the bars, and also at matchakari matcha.com.
Diana Weil (54:15):
Amazing. Thank you so much, Karen. You are just such an incredible guest and someone that I have always looked up to. We're so grateful to have had you.
Karen Malkin (54:25):
Thank you. Thanks for having me. It was really fun. Great seeing you.
Diana Weil (54:29):
Bye.
Karen Malkin (54:30):
Bye.
Voiceover (54:31):
Sip, savor and live well with new episodes of the Matcha Guardians every Wednesday. Follow our show for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you're listening right now. Leave your questions and comments below. Find us on Instagram at the Matcha Guardians or click on matcha.com.