In this episode of Matcha Guardians, we dive into the raw and unfiltered realities of parenthood with our husbands, Peter and Harley. From the very start, we throw them into the deep end, asking them to describe their experiences as new fathers in just one word. Peter emphasizes the immense responsibility that comes with fatherhood, noting how it has sharpened his focus and ability to manage work-life balance. Harley, on the other hand, highlights the sheer cuteness of his baby, which helps him endure the inevitable diaper changes and late-night duties.
As the conversation progresses, we explore the changes in relationship dynamics post-baby. Both men acknowledge the significant patience required, particularly towards their partners, who are often exhausted and overstimulated from the demands of breastfeeding and caring for a newborn. We discuss the emotional toll that this new phase of life can take, with Elara sharing how her initial anxieties often manifested as anger directed at Peter. Despite these challenges, Peter and Harley maintain that the joys of parenthood far outweigh the difficulties, especially as their babies start to smile and engage more with the world around them.
We also touch on the pressures and expectations around parenting, such as the concept of "good" and "bad" babies and the guilt associated with wanting personal time away from the baby. Harley and Peter discuss how important it is to take care of oneself, both physically and mentally, in order to be the best parent possible. They also share their thoughts on co-sleeping, a practice common in many cultures but often viewed with caution in the West. Both couples have experimented with co-sleeping and found that their babies tend to sleep better when close to them, though it does come with its own set of challenges.
Intimacy after childbirth is another candid topic we explore. Diana and Elara open up about the fears and discomfort associated with resuming sexual activity after a major medical procedure like a C-section. Both couples emphasize the importance of communication and patience as they navigate this new aspect of their relationship.
The episode concludes with some heartfelt reflections from Peter and Harley on the life lessons they've learned the hard way, as well as the mantras they rely on to stay grounded and motivated as new dads. Despite the challenges, they both agree that the experience of fatherhood, with all its ups and downs, is incredibly rewarding.
Voiceover (00:00):
Welcome to the Matcha Guardians Podcast, brought to you by matcha.com. Here, we focus on the biggest trending health topics of our time, featuring the greatest and upcoming wellness advocates.
Now, here are the Matcha Guardians, certified nutritionist, Diana Weil, and medical journalist, Elara Hadjipateras.
Diana Weil (00:18):
Hello, hello. Welcome to this week's episode.
Elara Hadjipateras (00:21):
We are so excited for our guests this week because we have our husbands on the podcast. My husband, Peter, and Diana's husband, Harley. So, mine is the bearded wonder. I'm not sure if he's below me, to my side, above me. But Peter has a beard. Harley at least right now, has no beard and short hair.
Diana Weil (00:39):
And we prepped them, not at all. So, they're just being put right on the spot.
Elara Hadjipateras (00:44):
So, should we just get to it, Diana?
Diana Weil (00:46):
Yeah. Hi, guys?
Harley Goedhart (00:47):
Hello.
Peter Hadjipateras (00:48):
Hey, good morning, ladies.
Elara Hadjipateras (00:50):
So, if you are going to describe parenthood (jumping right into it) in one word, what's the word that comes to mind, Pete?
Peter Hadjipateras (00:58):
Yeah, I think I have to say responsibility. You get an overwhelming sense of responsibility, but I was also, happily surprised to see or to discover that with that responsibility you kind of have this innate sense of focus that helps you get stuff done and level up your game in terms of work life, baby balance and all that. So, yeah, responsibility and focus.
Elara Hadjipateras (01:26):
Doing more with less. I can definitely relate to that. What about you, Harley?
Harley Goedhart (01:31):
Cute, that's the one word that I can think of. He’s just so cute. And I mean, there's a lot of diaper changes, but like those aren't even as bad as like I had expected. It's like fake poo, and fake pee, and fake throw up. It's like it doesn't even seem real.
Elara Hadjipateras (01:50):
Diana, have the oral examinations started for you, where when you're breastfeeding him, he sticks his fingers in your mouth or nose?
Diana Weil (01:57):
No. Is that a thing?
Elara Hadjipateras (01:59):
Yeah, that's going to — just you wait, that's fun. There's some term for it, but basically, it's their way of giving back to us for giving them our milk. They're just like, “Oh, thanks, mom, for the milk. Here's my finger in your nose.”
Diana Weil (02:12):
Oh, I'd love that.
Elara Hadjipateras (02:12):
Like, “This is for you.” Isn't that nice?
Diana Weil (02:14):
Yeah, that's really nice. So, for anyone who's maybe jumping in halfway through and doesn't know, Elara and I just had babies. So, Peter entered “daddy-dom” six months ahead of Harley, and we are here to grill them … this is a therapy session for Elara and I.
Elara Hadjipateras (02:30):
So, just real quick, Peter, if you were going to be able to give yourself advice six months ago, you give advice to Harley. Like what would you say to him right now? What would you say to yourself looking back?
Peter Hadjipateras (02:42):
Yeah, other than buckle up, just to try and set the scene, get organized, pretty important. It's not a lot of time to get organized afterwards. And maybe do some sleep training on yourself, I don't know. Harley, what would you say?
Harley Goedhart (03:04):
I think the biggest thing is like the whole relationship, the dynamic changes because it's like just you and your partner and all of a sudden, it's like you and your partner and this other person. And this other person, takes priority over everything.
And like shifting that around and knowing … that dynamic has got challenges and hold that space for each other and being patient with each other because they're tending to your child's needs and not your needs right away.
Diana Weil (03:39):
I do feel like that patience has to come a lot from like you guys towards us because I know like I've tired and I'm breastfeeding and so, it's like a lot of demands on me. So, I think that there's a lot more patience required from Harley. I don't have to give as much grace to Harley as Harley has to give to me right now, I think.
Do you feel that way, Elara?
Elara Hadjipateras (03:59):
Yeah, completely. Especially I think as a breastfeeding mom where there's just so much want and need and stimulation.
Like I'll never forget it was a month postpartum and I'm breastfeeding Koa and Peter comes behind me so loving, so nice, trying to give me a little back massage and I was like, “Get the fuck off me. Do not touch me. I'm overstimulated. It's not that I don't love you and I don't want your touch right now, it's just that there's so much being taken from me right now, that I have nothing left to give.”
And it required him I think not taking a lot of things personally when I made it personal. I mean, I don't know about you, but like poor Peter, especially for the first month or two when I had no idea what I was doing.
Instead of getting anxious, I get angry and I directed that a lot towards Peter and it's tough. I mean, he was a literal walking punching back for me. And I am sorry for that, Pete.
Peter Hadjipateras (04:57):
Yeah. So, I guess some advice I would give is get ready for some borderline emotional abuse, but it's coming from the best place. And get ready to immediately stand up the minute you sit down on the couch. Elara like always finds something for me to get. But it's great.
And then I think after a few months the doting on one person becomes more of a balance and you're just doting on the baby.
Elara Hadjipateras (05:29):
I think it shifted when I stopped breastfeeding at six months. It feels a bit more equal where it's like there's everything I can do, Peter can also do, I would say. I mean, though Koa does prefer mom's cuddles over dad's cuddles, but he prefers to play with dad. So, there's those things, but that's it.
Diana Weil (05:47):
So, before we started this podcast, Elara, you brought up a good point that I think I kind of want to have them answer for the podcast. So, your baby is eight months and ours is two months right now. We're recording mid-August. So, we're still in the fourth trimester, but you guys have left the fourth trimester.
And there's so much emphasis on mamas in fourth trimester. How we're feeling, how we're doing, how our postpartum experience is. And you asked our husbands how they're feeling and how their fourth trimester experience is. So, I kind of want to have you guys answer for the podcast.
Harley Goedhart (06:19):
I mean, I just walked into the room and like, “Oh, man, he's so cute. How did we get this thing?” The hurdles we went through to get him were challenging. So, here he is like just developing every day, something new.
Everyone says like it's really hard, which it is. But it's like in comparison to what you get, it's not that hard.
Diana Weil (06:41):
I think going to cry.
Elara Hadjipateras (06:43):
You tee up this question, you think that someone's going to start listing off like all the things that have been tough, all the difficulties. “I was so tired, my back hurt.” And that was just such a wonderful perspective, Harley. It's all about perspective really at the end of the day.
Harley Goedhart (06:58):
Yeah. And when Diana always says like it's easy to complain about the hard things, but it's hard to share about the joys of being a parent because once you’re in it, like it's hard to describe it.
Elara Hadjipateras (07:11):
That's so true. What about for you?
Peter Hadjipateras (07:12):
Yeah, no, I regret asking Harley to go first. I thought the beginning was extremely hard and while obviously it's so great to like enjoy every moment, I think the minute the baby starts smiling, it gets exceptionally easier.
A friend of mine jokes that babies probably evolved to smile at like two months so that like Spartan parents didn't throw them off a cliff because it really like just erases all memory of the torture you might've gone through last night or the vomit you just experienced on your chest from him.
So, once he started smiling, yeah, it's just you walk in, so cute and you'll do anything for him.
So, fourth trimester has been good. He is starting to move around more. So, I think we feel it's a bit of a honeymoon period before full mobility and crawling. So, soaking it in.
Elara Hadjipateras (08:09):
Yeah, I've heard from people that like that sweet spot of seven to nine months is really great because they're really perceptive, they're really engaged, they're really smiley, they're laughing.
But to Peter's point, they're not on the move and we don't have to childproof everything and it's not constantly staring at him. You can get away with putting him in the middle of the bed and walking the other side of the room and doing something.
So, I don't even know if you're going to have an answer to this, Harley, for my next question, but I know that Diana probably has some examples, but I would love for us to share some meltdown stories.
Diana Weil (08:41):
Oh, Harley has examples.
Elara Hadjipateras (08:43):
So, I guess we could start there. So, Harley, could you give me an example of a Diana meltdown story you think she hasn't shared with me?
Harley Goedhart (08:50):
Oh, so, it's Diana melting down? Or me melting down, or Elio melting down?
Elara Hadjipateras (08:54):
It can be yourself. It can be you melting down, which I probably, bet there's not even an example of that. Or Diana melting down.
Harley Goedhart (09:02):
When we were about to leave the hospital and Diana had a C-section, so she was like completely immobile. I was doing everything and I was like, “Ooh, me taking care of the baby, and cleaning the house, and cooking, and doing everything, that seems like a tall order. I think we need help.” And Diana was like, “We don't need help.” I'm like, “No, we need help.”
Elara Hadjipateras (09:23):
Oh, and the dogs. You left out the dogs and the cats.
Harley Goedhart (09:25):
Walking the dogs and the cats, yeah. But Diana’s meltdown happened just recently, yesterday. I don't have breasts so I don't get to feed at night. It can be really hard for me to do it. And so, she's the one that takes that on.
And so, like it's a lot harder for her and it has a toll on health and everything else. If you're not sleeping right, then everything else starts deteriorating. And when everything hits at once, that's when the meltdowns happen and it's tricky.
And then it also doesn't help too when I mess up and I miss that schedule because like the scheduling you have to be like on it with the scheduling.
Diana Weil (10:06):
Harley's being very generous here, but a couple days ago, I think my biggest meltdown was I was like, I don't think I'd eaten and I was so tired and I was making like sandwiches for us and Harley said something and I think I just like slammed the bread on the floor and left the house. It's like, “I'm done.”
And I just went for like a 20-minute walk and then I came back and it was like okay again.
Elara Hadjipateras (10:30):
That's great.
Diana Weil (10:31):
Yes. I didn't throw it at him, I just threw it at the ground.
Elara Hadjipateras (10:35):
What did I do? Two days ago, Peter's doing bath time with Koa. He's just like in the bathtub, Koa is on top of him. And I come in. And, like, I put my hand up and say, “Now, I'm definitely the parent who is buying a lot of the toys and things for Koa that he probably doesn't need, but I cannot help myself. I'm buying him a bunch of stuff.”
So, I have basically this bowl in our bathroom now, that's just full of bath toys. So, I just come in and Peter’s enjoying bathroom with Koa, so I come into the bath and there's just a bowl of all these toys and I just take it and I just throw all of them into the bathtub.
So, Koa was just like, “Oh my god, look at all these toys.” And Peter looks at me, he goes, “Elara, you're overstimulating him. You're going to give him ADHD.” And it just sets me off. I'm like, “You think I'm a bad parent? I've been parenting all day. You try parenting without like toys to go to every five minutes. Like he loses his attention.”
And I took a ball and it's like a bouncy ball and I threw it at Peter's face and it bounced off. It did not injure him.
Diana Weil (11:30):
I don't think anyone told me how quickly you go to rage.
Elara Hadjipateras (11:35):
Very fast.
Diana Weil (11:36):
The rage comes on like instant, instant rage.
Elara Hadjipateras (11:40):
Like from joy, to jubilation, to just absolute annihilation very quickly.
Diana Weil (11:46):
Wait, Peter, can you please tell the story about Elara not bathing?
Harley Goedhart (11:49):
Not bathing? Which, what?
Diana Weil (11:52):
When you were like, “Elara, it doesn't count for you to just bathe with the baby.”
Elara Hadjipateras (11:59):
Yeah, there was one point where I did a bath time and you go into the bath with the baby and you're bathing him. And then I come out and I go to get in bed and things are different as far as the relationship intimacy.
And Peter kind of like, I don’t know, gives me a sniff or something. He's like, “Elara, it doesn't count like when you take a bath with Koa, that's his bath. Like you're not bathing yourself, you need to wash yourself.”
Peter Hadjipateras (12:24):
Yeah, it's hectic in the beginning. You had trouble finding time, I get it.
Elara Hadjipateras (12:28):
And then I also, had like this irrational belief that like he liked my natural scent. So, I was like, “Peter, he needs it. He needs my-
Peter Hadjipateras (12:35):
Also, going back to the bath comment, I don't think there's any science behind too many toys leading to ADD but it is incredible to watch how they'll just fixate on like a cardboard box and that's 10 times more interesting than any of these toys you can buy.
So, we're trying to go the cardboard box route. I think self-made homemade toys are pretty effective.
Diana Weil (12:57):
Peter, we didn't ask you about your — do you have any meltdown stories or can you share a good one? Elara shared one of her herself, but I'm sure that there's more and I want to hear if you've had any meltdowns too.
Peter Hadjipateras (13:08):
Yeah, I think I melted down about the toys. Yeah, not frequently but-
Elara Hadjipateras (13:13):
And the Amazon boxes. He does not like coming home to there being packages.
Peter Hadjipateras (13:17):
I think a funny meltdown, which hopefully has a decent message at the end is we were on vacation with the grandparents, my parents, and Elara and I were asked to go to dinner with them and the baby was three months old at this point.
So, we were sticking to a very strict bedtime routine, which is obviously important. And Elara did not want to go to dinner. Dinner was at 7:00, that was bedtime.
We ultimately convinced her to take the baby to dinner and within the first 10 minutes the baby threw up all over her nice dress. And she had to run back to the room and change the baby and put him to bed.
At which point I went back and tried to convince her to come to dinner and was received with a little bit of hostility, I would say.
Elara Hadjipateras (14:11):
Some words.
Peter Hadjipateras (14:12):
But I knew that ultimately, she would really enjoy going to dinner. She had been with the baby for the past four days straight. And so, I stayed with the baby and made her to go to dinner despite her consistently yelling at me. And in the end, I think that was a good thing.
So, don't let these sparks ignite a fight. I think it's pretty obvious sometimes when people are overtired and just support your partner and let them go to dinner.
Elara Hadjipateras (14:41):
And I think the other thing that's interesting is like, so getting projectile vomited at dinner in a nice dress on the first vacation you've taken and basically over a year is a nightmare scenario. You just think this is worst case scenario but then you realize it's not that big of a deal.
And now, when I get thrown up on by him, not that it's as often as it used to be, I don't even bat an eyelash. Like it's just funny how the perspectives shift. The first time it happens, it's doomsday, it's horrible, oh my god. And then you just kind of are like, eh.
So, I guess it speaks to the point of advice I got before a parent that I was like, oh, I don't really know if this is true or not. Like travel early with your baby, take your baby out. Live your life like you normally do.
Like if you like going out to dinner, practice going out to dinner with your baby. Those things are going to happen and it's better they happen early because then you don't even sweat it.
Like we had a flight to Hawaii which was almost 11 hours. So, flight takes off, Koa starts kind of crying a little bit. My mom's like, “Give him the pacifier, give him the pacifier, Elara.” (Koa doesn't like the pacifier for the record)
Stick the pacifier in his mouth, immediately pops it out, projectile vomits formula all over my legs. I brought him a change of clothes for the flight, not me. So, I just spent the rest of the flight smelling like vomit and I couldn't care less. It was no big deal.
Diana Weil (16:00):
I think Peter and I are both a little bit more people pleasers and Harley and Elara are a little bit more like, “I'm going to do what I need to do and like other people can deal with it.”
And I love the fact I was talking to Elara about like, “Are you so scared to bring Koa on an 11-hour flight?” And she was like, “No, because if he cries, like who cares? Like I don't care if people are pissed.” Whereas I think that that's like Peter and I's worst nightmare.
Peter Hadjipateras (16:24):
Literally my worst nightmare. Yeah, I was terrified.
Elara Hadjipateras (16:28):
Peter wasn't on the flight. He conveniently had to change for a work dinner and rebook to the next day. So, I had the joy of flying alone for 11 hours with our five-month-old.
Peter Hadjipateras (16:38):
I joined the return flight and it was a miracle he slept the entire time.
Elara Hadjipateras (16:42):
In my seat, in my seat.
Peter Hadjipateras (16:43):
Your brain just like builds things up to be so much more intimidating than they are and then you realize like ultimately the baby loves to do what you're doing and he is probably more entertained like following you around on activities than you just trying to entertain him. So, that's a nice discovery.
Diana Weil (17:00):
One thing I hate is the “good baby-bad baby” conversations, because I'm like he's not a bad baby if he cries, he's just in pain or something's going on for him. Or like he's not a good baby because he slept. It's just like he was ready to sleep through the night.
And I don't know, I was thinking about the like it's not a bad baby if they cry on the plane, they're just doing what they're supposed to be doing. And I know that it's something that I need to get over of like I don't really care if I piss people off. I mean, I do, I very much so care, but I'm trying to not let that stop us from doing things.
Harley Goedhart (17:33):
I mean, we took, supposedly it was a six-hour drive, and it ended up being nine hours because with stops, and changes, breastfeeding and everything. But I mean, it does take longer, that's for sure.
Elara Hadjipateras (17:49):
Everything takes longer. But I just remember at first being terrified and being so stressed the first couple car rides we took with the baby. Like the first doctor's appointment you have, I think it's like the week after you bring the baby home from the hospital. We were just like on the amazing race just going crazy outside of the house.
And looking back I'm like that should have been probably a very relaxing experience. Like we probably were so jacked up that then that made Koa jacked up and not enjoy the ride. And he loves being in the car now.
Diana Weil (18:20):
So, I kind of want to roll back to like birth and delivery because Elara and I were both C-section moms, which was for us not anticipated. And I know for Elara, yours was scheduled, so you guys knew what you were going into.
But I do feel like C-section is different for the dads because you guys were the first ones to hold the babies, whereas usually it's the moms. And I'm curious, I want to hear just like the birth from your experience and was that meaningful for you guys? Did you like that you were the first ones to hold the baby or was it stressful because you knew that we were like, “Give us the baby!”
Peter Hadjipateras (18:54):
It was stressful. Yeah, I think it was stressful because Elara had her mind set on a natural birth and I didn't want her to be let down. But I also, knew like deep down that once the baby came out, she would totally forget about all that and not care.
So, it was great to hold the baby but I was really excited to pass him over and enjoy the moment with Elara because I knew how important it was.
And yeah, I think that the whole C-section versus natural birth thing is so built up. And I think with the social media and stuff, it's kind of like over hyped, but in the end they're both very, very good ways to deliver a baby and you have a healthy baby, that's all that matters. So, we were really happy afterwards.
Diana Weil (19:44):
And what about like recovery wise because I mean, it's an intense recovery. There's maybe potentially depending on the process could be more on the dads work-wise because we can't really get out of bed or it's difficult to hold the baby and stuff. Did you find that to be the case?
Peter Hadjipateras (19:59):
Yeah. And I think Elara came back a little too quickly. So, then the recovery maybe took even longer, but you have to be that supportive husband for a little bit longer, I guess than the other way around. But it's great. And you healed well, Elara.
Elara Hadjipateras (20:22):
Yeah, well, I did kind of overdid it too soon in the beginning after a couple weeks and I ended up almost reopening some of my sutures up. So, then instead of them being pretty healed after 6 to 8 weeks, I think I was closer to 10 to 12.
Peter Hadjipateras (20:35):
Yeah. So, the toughest part was like you not being able to get active yourself again because I think that's important for your balance. And with the lack of sleep and inactivity, it'd get a bit stir crazy. So, I think that was the big phase.
Harley Goedhart (20:50):
It's pretty wild watching the whole thing.
Peter Hadjipateras (20:55):
Did you look over the curtain?
Harley Goedhart (20:56):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Peter Hadjipateras (20:58):
I didn't, I was too nervous. I was nervous that like they were going to see me peeking over and mess up or something, which is totally irrational, but-
Harley Goedhart (21:06):
They hiked curtain up pretty high and then as they were working kind of like slid down a little bit so I could just like peer around the corner. So-
Diana Weil (21:14):
Harley and I have a level of intimacy that's like he's seen my intestines.
Peter Hadjipateras (21:18):
Wow. Lucky man.
Elara Hadjipateras (21:20):
That’s close.
Diana Weil (21:22):
He can never leave me.
Harley Goedhart (21:23):
Yeah, it was pretty crazy. And actually, Diana, you actually got to hold him first. I did not get to hold him. I was just with him and like hold his hand and that kind of stuff, and like touch him and stuff. But you were the first to hold him, hold him, so-
Diana Weil (21:41):
Oh okay.
Harley Goedhart (21:42):
Yeah. Because he was hooked up to the CPAP and they we’re doing the tests and all that stuff.
Peter Hadjipateras (21:46):
Yeah. Actually, I think we snipped the umbilical cord and then we passed back. So, yeah, Elara you did hold first as well.
Elara Hadjipateras (21:56):
No, I didn't. Because remember they took him to that warming weird table that like has a bright light and measures him and then you were just holding him and he was just screaming. And I was laying like Jesus with my arms up.
Diana Weil (22:07):
Were they like levitating and shit.
Elara Hadjipateras (22:08):
They were like this. They had put some morphine in my drip and I was just like, “Woo.” I was in no condition to hold a baby. Peter like held him and kind of like nuzzled him next to me.
And then they brought me out of the ER into a recovery room and then they put him on top of me and then he latched and all that jazz.
Diana Weil (22:27):
Kind of a wild process.
Elara Hadjipateras (22:30):
Wild. Yeah. So, wild is for the record, the word I always used to describe just birth, postpartum. It's just a wild ride, all of it. It's just absolutely wild.
So, I would love to hear from you guys, what is a piece of advice that you heard from someone before you became a dad?
Peter Hadjipateras (22:48):
I don’t know, somebody just gave me the talk and was like, “Listen, your life won't change that much. Like you'll figure out the balance.” And that sort of just something clicked and made me much more relaxed about the whole thing.
Elara Hadjipateras (22:57):
It was Mary Lena and the way she said it, the way she put it was like, “Oh, Elara's life is going to change, yours is basically the same.”
Diana Weil (23:06):
Elara, do you feel resentful of that? Because that's something that I've been like my entire world is different and like kind of for Harley like yes, it's different but it's not the extreme that it is for me and sometimes I get resentful of that. Do you feel that way?
Elara Hadjipateras (23:22):
I think there are moments like the moments when say Peter wakes up in the morning and can spontaneously say, “I'm going to go to a CrossFit class at 7:00 AM.” I'm like, “Well, I wish I could do that but I can't.”
But I have to say there's been a shift the last two, three months where the clouds have parted and Peter will be like, “Oh, Elara come in here, you got to see this, you got to see this.” And he'll be like, “Look at him like playing with the numb.” I'm like, “Yeah, I've seen that six times. I'm with him all day.”
And then it's in those moments when I'm like you see all these little things that are just so amazing. And then I see Peter kind of come and he'll have not maybe seen it over the last couple days because he's not home every second with him the way I am and he's so mesmerized by what he's doing.
And then it just kind of fills me up and makes my cup overpour with pride and happiness and there's zero resentment whatsoever. And I just feel so lucky that I'm able to work from home and be around him and be here for all those moments.
Diana Weil (24:14):
That's sweet. I like that. I know Harley had about, I think seve,n weeks off for paternity leave, whereas I know, Peter, you didn't get quite as much time. So, how was it going back to work? That I think can be tough.
I think one of the things that's been when Harley can say that like it hasn't been that hard, I think one, we have an easy baby, just like he's pretty easy. And also, we had a lot of time together where it was both of us and we're just sort of now getting back into the real world.
So, I think that like things are getting harder now that he's back at work. And you guys kind of jumped back into that pretty early.
Peter Hadjipateras (24:52):
Well, Harley's a saint so it's tough to compare us, I think.
Elara Hadjipateras (24:54):
Peter, just be truthful. No one's going to judge you.
Peter Hadjipateras (24:57):
But yeah, honestly, I was like really ready to get back to work because I feel at the beginning there like wasn't enough for me to do. So, I was just sitting around like stressing. And then if I was working from home, I'd be stressed that I wasn't doing enough to support Elara and the baby.
Yeah, especially if your wife's breastfeeding, there's like you can't fill out your whole day. You're kind of just like there stressed and trying to be supportive. So, I was ready to go back.
But then once the baby starts moving a little bit more and you don't feel like you're going to break its neck every time you pick him up, I feel like there's more that the husbands can do and then I limited my hours and all that.
And so, yeah, I think paternity leave would be great like three to six months in ideally.
Diana Weil (25:46):
Is there any part of you that wants to be a stay-at-home dad?
Peter Hadjipateras (25:49):
Oh yeah. Especially now, that he is getting mobile. I mean, I would love it. So, I think in Norway and Denmark you have paternity leave out until 12 or even 24 months in Norway. So, that's pretty cool. You can take two months or at least a year or two.
Harley Goedhart (26:06):
And do you know if that's paid or unpaid?
Peter Hadjipateras (26:07):
Paid.
Elara Hadjipateras (26:08):
It's paid.
Peter Hadjipateras (26:10):
Yeah. The maternity leave in Scandinavia is ridiculous.
Elara Hadjipateras (26:13):
Well, they require- you have to take off the two weeks right after the birth and then the soonest you can go back to work is after those two weeks. And then I think it's even up to several years like that the child's old like you could end up taking some of your paternity leave when your child's four years old.
Peter Hadjipateras (26:27):
I believe Norway is up to three or four. But Denmark's like one, one and a half.
Diana Weil (26:31):
Wow. Harley, would you have wanted to adjust? Like would you have rather taken off now, or a little bit later and did you feel like it was too long? Like were you ready to get back?
Peter Hadjipateras (26:42):
Be honest.
Diana Weil (26:43):
Yeah, be honest.
Harley Goedhart (26:44):
Towards the end I was ready to get back. I mean, we were fortunate, like I took a long paternity leave but also was unpaid.
So, my mindset through that period was just like, Diana's not getting a lot of sleep because she's up all night so I'm going to just make it as easy as possible for her. Like I'm changing almost every diaper during the day that I'm up so that she doesn't have to worry about it. She just like gets to chill, heal, relax. And I'm just changing the diapers and trying to get …
I was like basically our man servant or trying to be. Well, I don't know how successful I was.
Diana Weil (27:20):
Harley brought me a lot of water bottles.
Elara Hadjipateras (27:23):
I became best friends with my Stanley cup.
Harley Goedhart (27:25):
Having that mindset of like, oh, I'm just like the servant here. And then like it was a little bit harder for me to get forward, I guess, just having like that mindset. But it gets repetitive after you've changed like the 16th diaper of the day and you're working pretty quick.
At first, you're like the first diaper's so slow, they're crying, you're like, “I don't know what I'm doing.” And then all of a sudden, like the last one, like you're just stopwatch, you're like, “Ah, done in 15 seconds.”
Elara Hadjipateras (28:00):
It becomes one of the most satisfying things you do as a parent because you're like, “I can do this, I can change a diaper. Like it will be better after I do this simple activity.”
Harley Goedhart (28:10):
Yeah. So, was I ready to go back? Yeah. I felt like I was ready to go back to work when it was.
And I don't know if like in the future maybe I'll be like, well, maybe I should have spent more time later on when they're toddlers and they're a little bit harder and they're wandering around versus like when they're just sleeping. And I felt like in that time though, I got to bond quite a bit, which was fortunate.
Diana Weil (28:31):
And to be fair too, you were also, like working out and going on dog walks and doing Jujutsu. So, like you also had your own time and-
Elara Hadjipateras (28:40):
You weren't just stuck at the house like as a milk machine.
Alright. So, this is a fun topic we got to get into, guys. Peter's going to squirm because he’s a private person. You know where I'm going, Diana. Intimacy after baby. When was the first time you guys were intimate after the baby? Have you been intimate? It's been two months out.
Diana Weil (28:59):
Oh, I took your advice actually. I think I texted you and I was like, “Elara, this feels scary, what do we do?”
Elara Hadjipateras (29:04):
And I said, “Do it.”
Diana Weil (29:05):
Yeah. So, I think it was-
Elara Hadjipateras (29:06):
So, that's the girl who opened her stitches doing it but-
Harley Goedhart (29:09):
So, we broke rules, we did it.
Elara Hadjipateras (29:13):
We did it. Yeah, we did it three weeks postpartum. Keeping in mind I was a scheduled C-section. There was nothing as far as like dilation that had happened. I had zero contractions. It was definitely more painful than it had been in the past. And then it got probably I'd say like more regular after one or two months.
But let's hear from Peter. What was it like for Peter?
Peter Hadjipateras (29:40):
Yeah, it's scary. Got to be careful with you after this big major procedure. So, yeah, you were happy to wait I think until everything's healed up. At least that's how I felt.
Diana Weil (29:56):
We waited four weeks and it wasn't great. Didn't love it.
Elara Hadjipateras (30:02):
Do you do any co-sleeping with him at this point? He's still real young.
Diana Weil (30:06):
Yeah, I give up around like 4:30, 5:00, and I bring him into bed. And I like kick off all the pillows and I move Harley over and I'm like, “Baby's in the bed.” And then I just put him in my arm. But I try to keep him in his bassinet until about 5:00 AM. It's mostly that I don't sleep as well if he's in the bed. But around 5:00 AM, I bring him in.
And at first, I was actually more comfortable with Harley holding him. I was so nervous to co-sleep because I was like, if anything happens to him, I would die. That's how it felt. I actually felt more comfortable with Harley co-sleeping and now, I only feel comfortable with me co-sleeping.
What about you guys?
Elara Hadjipateras (30:44):
We've been co-sleeping for a while with him. Well, there's some nights where we put him in the crib where he'll start out in the crib and then we'll bring him to the bed. But by far (he) sleeps the best in the bed.
Diana Weil (30:54):
With you guys, yeah.
Peter Hadjipateras (30:55):
In the beginning we were really scared to do it obviously because they're so fragile and you just hear the horror stories. So, we didn't do it for until like a month and a half or two months.
Elara Hadjipateras (31:05):
I think it was honestly three months in and we were so neurotic about like baby on back, only on the back, only sleep on the back.
Peter Hadjipateras (31:12):
To turn it around and ask both of you a question. I think this bassinet and the baby sleeping in a separate room is a very western thing. And in India and a lot of eastern cultures, co-sleeping is extremely accepted and in the norm. And people do it until the babies are like five or older, 6, sleeping in the same room.
Do you think there's a better way? I mean, which way is better? Which culture has it right or does it not affect the baby's development? I haven't read much about it, but it's intriguing and it makes me want to co-sleep more when you hear these theories.
Diana Weil (31:51):
Harley and I both had “where's my baby” dreams? I don't know if you guys had those, but we would wake up in the middle of the night like frantically searching for Elio in the bed. Like patting the pillows, being like, “Where is he? I know that he's here somewhere and I can't find him.”
I just feel like co-sleeping is so natural. Especially because when he was like separated from me and in his own sleeping space, I would wake up frantic of like where is he? I also feel like for sure he sleeps better when he is — he doesn't want to be separated from us either.
So, I feel like we kind of have it wrong and at the same time I know that I get better sleep because I get anxious about him like if anything happened or all that kind of stuff. Harley, what do you think? I'm curious. I want to hear your answer too.
Harley Goedhart (32:35):
I think it's more natural to co-sleep. It sounds nice. My aunt co-slept my cousin and she was explaining it to me and she made it sound so nice.
It's just like you're asleep on the bed, they cry, you just roll over and breastfeed them. I don’t know if it goes everywhere. You just fall asleep in that. And she's like, “It's beautiful. It's beautiful.” She's also Chilean too, so-
Diana Weil (32:58):
Feels unnatural to kind of just put my baby away from me. Yeah.
Peter Hadjipateras (33:03):
Yeah. Well, it probably is unnatural, right?
Elara Hadjipateras (33:06):
Well, the difference between his attitude when we put him down in the crib versus when we put him down in the bed is night and day.
I put him down in the crib and he is kind of like slight panic induced, like where are you putting me? Especially if I do that thing where it's like drowsy but awake. Once again, a whole nother podcast episode as far as like sleep training, baby sleep.
So, you put them in drowsy or awake and as soon as I put him down, he realizes he's not in my arms, he freaks out. I bring him into our bedroom and the minute he hits the bed he's like making all these noises. He's having a great time. It's like he's throwing a party before bed. He's thrilled.
And I'm like, why wouldn't I want bedtime to have like a positive association? Why wouldn't I want this to be the best time of day versus like what I want it to feel like pulling teeth for an hour where he's miserable, I'm miserable. Or we could both be really happy for 15 minutes and then just let them go to sleep like that.
But I just want to address, I think why a lot of people are also against co-sleeping is A, they're worried about rolling over on the baby, but I think the second biggest concern is it impacting a couple's intimacy.
And to that point, I think that that doesn't have to be the case. Like you make room for each other outside the bedroom. Like you can be intimate outside of your bedroom.
And I think it's just about being more comfortable in that way. You just kind of have to be able to do things on the fly and a little bit more quickly. There's a little bit more of an efficiency aspect.
Diana Weil (34:26):
Yeah, it's tough. There is a balance of like wanting to protect the relationship and I think even though it's difficult, what sort of needs to come first is the marriage. Because a good, healthy marriage is best for the baby.
And also, I want my baby with me at all times. So, there's this balance of like making time for Harley and I and also, that our marriage has to be a priority and having our baby with us-
Elara Hadjipateras (34:51):
Have you done the thing where you've had sex in front of the baby yet?
Diana Weil (34:54):
Yeah, and I feel weird about it.
Elara Hadjipateras (34:56):
Wait until you get to the point where you're having sex in front of the baby and they're awake and they like touch your hand. And then you're like, “Oh my gosh. It's like what is this?” Like no, no, no.
Peter Hadjipateras (35:04):
Elara, you're talking like that's never happened. That would not happen. It's extremely uncomfortable.
Harley Goedhart (35:11):
So, you said that you keep waking up, like it’s still uncomfortable if they slept in the bed and you don't think get as good enough sleep.
But do you think that's because of just all the warnings and I don't want to say fear tactics they’re somewhat valid, but I was like all the fear around co-sleeping. Like if that wasn't there, it was just like the standard thing you do, do you think you should be able to sleep better at night?
Diana Weil (35:38):
Yeah, for sure. I think so. I mean, I think if he was close to me, I would probably sleep better. But also, I do kind of feel like stuck in one position with him and I don't feel like I can move around. So, I actually think I would just sleep better without him because I like curl around him. I create a little shield.
Have you guys slept in separate bedrooms so one of you can get a full night's sleep because I think sometimes that can be taboo, but it also, could be very important.
Elara Hadjipateras (36:04):
We did that last night except I … because so, we're dealing with our dog, he just got neutered and now he's got bladder stones. So, I stayed in the living room with him to make sure he was okay to bring him out to the bathroom. And Peter stayed in the bedroom with Koa.
And then, I don't know what time it was, Pete, like 3:00 in the morning we ended up swapping, like Peter came out then it was all three of us kind of on the couch together. And then Peter left and then I stayed with Koa on the couch and he took the dog.
Diana Weil (36:30):
Yeah. Which I feel like is great. I don't understand the concept of if I'm suffering, I'm also going to make my partner suffer. So, like when I get up in the middle of the night, I'm like, “Harley, please keep sleeping.”
Or I think that like if you guys are going through a really tough sleep stretch, it makes sense that Peter sleeps in a different bedroom so that he can get a full night's sleep especially if you're working. Like I don't really understand that.
I see it a lot on social media too, where it's like my husband takes a six hour stretch and then I take … I mean, and I do think it's different if you're breastfeeding versus bottle feeding, but I just like don't understand the concept of like let's both wake up and do this together.
Peter Hadjipateras (37:06):
Yeah, it's not sustainable either. Inevitably one person will crash.
Diana Weil (37:12):
And then they throw bread in the ground or a ball at your face.
Elara Hadjipateras (37:16):
Or a ball at your face. Yeah.
Diana Weil (37:18):
Okay. Any last burning questions? Any other like taboo things you guys want to cover?
Harley Goedhart (37:26):
I do have a question before you guys. What did you find most difficult about maintaining your health, fitness, emotional, physical health after having a kid? Like what's the hardest thing to maintain and what's the easiest?
Diana Weil (37:47):
I think one, it's hard to just find time to work out, which is really, like I've had to do more walking, which isn't — like walking is amazing and I think it is a fabulous way to exercise, but I would rather do like a harder, more higher impact workout. And I just don't have time for that because I can't just go to a class. That just isn't always an option.
And then there are times when I'm so hungry and I just like can't put him down to feed myself or what I need to eat is something that's like really quick and on the fly and I can't be like, okay, let me make myself this really nice meal.
Elara Hadjipateras (38:23):
Yeah, no, I'd say that just perpetually, yeah, if you're breastfeeding and you're hungry and then if you're not eating enough, you're hangry and then it, it just snowballs.
So, for me it's just been my emotional regulation. Like I'm not normally the type of person who's so like flipped the switch happy, angry in a good mood, kind of taking out my negative energy like on Peter or whoever might be around me. It's just, I'm usually pretty balanced. So, that's been a challenge for me.
And I think a lot of it has to do with obviously hormones, sleep deprivation, diet, all these things. Like not working out to Peter's point.
And I'm just, I think getting to a point where I'm feeling like 80% of the time like more balanced, but still that 20% where I fall into just kind of the like I just feel like I'm in a tornado and it's not a great feeling and just like not in full control of myself.
And the forgetfulness, I just feel very stupid. I feel like a dumb version of myself. And that has been really challenging. I walk into rooms all the time and I forget why I walked in. I say I'm going to write something down. I tell Peter I'm going to do something and I just forget.
And I've always been a pretty on point person and I'm not anymore. I don't know if it's going to come back, but that's been a little scary to deal with as far as my health. I'm almost like do I need to get a memory test?
Diana Weil (39:44):
Yeah, I'm dumb. I'm dumb right now. Yeah, dumb.
Elara Hadjipateras (39:47):
Dumb Elara. Dumb Diana.
Peter Hadjipateras (39:50):
Pregnancy brain.
Diana Weil (39:51):
We’re dumb together. Peter, what about you?
Peter Hadjipateras (39:54):
Yeah, I think in the beginning it was difficult to find time for yourself away from the baby. You almost build it up to be more difficult than it is. And I don't want it to speak for either one of you because we both know it's more difficult for both of you.
But I think also, I felt this and I think I saw it in Elara where her mom was staying with us for a little while and is now, and like you can give the baby your mom, but in the beginning, like that just like not an option in your head. You're like, “No, no, no, like I'm not going to leave the baby for that hour.” Like your mind like builds it up into this thing that's can't do it.
And I just found it took like a month or two to get over that and realize that sometimes it's good to just hand them over to someone else, go do your thing, come back, be more focused and yeah, put in the quality rather than just the quantity.
Elara Hadjipateras (40:54):
Harley, you got to answer too.
Harley Goedhart (40:55):
I think Diana's made it real easy for me to work out and she's been a big proponent of that like, “Oh yeah, go work out right now. Go do this right now. Get out of the house, do stuff.”
And then she's also been really like, if I don't get enough sleep, like I get canker sores in my mouth and it's just like my health starts to dwindle and like cranky. And so, her letting me sleep has been like really great.
So, it's like the fact that I'm as healthy as I am is due to Diana and what she's willing to sacrifice. And so, it's almost like I feel bad because I'm like, “Oh, I'm feeling high, feel a little great.” But it's like she's allowed me to do that. So, I guess thanks for letting me be healthy and I can hopefully be healthy enough to cheer you on.
Diana Weil (41:49):
I got to take care of Harley so that Harley can take care of me. That's the like give and take.
Elara Hadjipateras (41:56):
That's how it works. Well, guys, I don't know — well, Peter, you don't know this I think because you have not listened to too many of the episodes, but at the end of each episode, we like to ask our guests two questions. Diana, do you want to sling the first question?
Diana Weil (42:11):
Yeah, I'm really excited to hear your guys' answer. What is a life lesson that you have had to learn the hard way?
Peter Hadjipateras (42:17):
The most important life lesson I've learned recently the hard way is that you have to shake the bottle after you put in the formula and the water,
Diana Weil (42:29):
What happens if you don't?
Peter Hadjipateras (42:31):
And if you don't, the baby almost inevitably throws up or there's a big powder mustache on his mouth and you have to go do it all over again. So, learnt that one a few days ago.
Diana Weil (42:46):
Harley, what about you?
Harley Goedhart (42:49):
Boundaries.
Diana Weil (42:50):
Oh, expand, please.
Harley Goedhart (42:52):
I feel like boundaries are much harder for me. But I feel it's genetic because my mom struggles with boundaries. So, something that I'm just stumbling through.
Diana Weil (43:01):
And do you feel like having a baby has made … like I feel like having a baby like boundaries become more important.
Harley Goedhart (43:08):
Yeah, definitely. I don't know, maybe it's also, giving you a great excuse to set up a boundary. It's harder if you don't have an excuse to set up a boundary.
Peter Hadjipateras (43:19):
Much deeper lesson learned than mine.
Elara Hadjipateras (43:21):
So, the second question we like to ask is, what is a mantra right now, that maybe you say to yourself to psych yourself up, Peter, maybe when I'm giving you an especially hard time. This is the thing that when you go into the bathroom and you look yourself in the mirror, this is what comes to mind to kind of keep you going through.
Peter Hadjipateras (43:42):
Yeah, that's an easy one. I always tell myself that Koa is watching. Our son's name's Koa. Yeah, like if I'm ever getting lazy at work or at the gym, I'll just be like just imagine him in the corner, like watching you intently everything you're doing and keeps me pretty focused and motivated.
Diana Weil (44:02):
Oh, that's a sweet one. You want to be a good role model for your son. Be the person he thinks you are.
Peter Hadjipateras (44:09):
Yeah. And it's really effective if you just say it out loud or in your head.
Elara Hadjipateras (44:14):
What about you, Harley?
Harley Goedhart (44:15):
Everything's short term. Nothing lasts forever and everything's in a season so it's like everything's going to end at one point or another. So, you just have to stick to it 10 more seconds, one more day. You can do anything for seven days.
Elara Hadjipateras (44:34):
That's a really good one.
Peter Hadjipateras (44:36):
This is cliche, but around the same lines. I think everybody before you have a baby, just enjoy every moment of it. And I think you really feel that when you're in it and even the most torturous moment, you just have to remember that that's going to pass.
And in a year, you'll probably be like wishing you could go back to that time and be up all night with the baby and have him torturing you. So, it's yeah, not like saying I can't wait for this, but enjoying the moment has been great. Good advice for me.
Diana Weil (45:09):
Yeah, it's important and it goes by fast. Well, thank you guys for joining us. I know that we kind of put you in the hot seat here and you both did amazing and we love you so much. And thank you for letting us throw things at you temporarily while we're losing our minds.
Elara Hadjipateras (45:25):
We love you guys. Listeners, if there's any other questions or topics you think would be fun to hear from Harley and Peter about, let us know and we can bring them back on for another episode.
Diana Weil (45:36):
We'll see you next time.
[Music Playing]
Voiceover (45:37):
Sip, savor, and live well with new episodes of The Matcha Guardians every Wednesday. Follow our show for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you're listening right now. Leave your questions and comments below. Find us on Instagram at The Matcha Guardians, or click on matcha.com.