In this episode, we sit down with Kait Stephens, CEO and co-founder of Brij, to explore what it really means to build a business and a family at the same time — and do it with intention. Kait walks us through her shift from a career in finance and investing to launching Brij, a platform that helps brands capture first-party data and build lasting customer relationships through QR technology. What began as a pain point around brands losing the consumer connection at retail grew into a full-fledged SaaS solution used by over 150 brands.
We unpack how the pandemic accelerated QR adoption, e-commerce growth, and customer data awareness — all of which validated Brij’s direction. But this conversation isn’t just about startup strategy. Kait shares the deeply personal and emotional journey she went through while building the company: a long and painful road through infertility, five rounds of IVF, miscarriages, and the isolation that came with it. All of this was happening in parallel with launching her business. Her message? You can do both — but it’s messy, nonlinear, and hard.
We discuss the role of proactive decision-making in fertility, the emotional toll of early motherhood, and how she structured her life — and calendar — to make space for both work and family. Kait shares how she blocks time for bathtime and bedtime with her daughters, why she doesn’t apologize for it, and how she encourages her team (mostly women) to do the same.
She also opens up about sharing her journey publicly — from vulnerability hangovers to going viral on LinkedIn. We explore how blending personal stories into professional spaces builds trust, strengthens leadership, and creates a more connected team. Kait talks candidly about online criticism, gendered expectations, and the double standards that still persist for working moms.
We close with a discussion about managing burnout, raising strong daughters, hiring Gen Z talent, and redefining what success looks like as a parent and a leader. Kait leaves us with one powerful reminder: parenting doesn’t diminish your ability to lead — it expands it. The negotiation, multitasking, and empathy required in motherhood? Those are executive skills too.
00:00 - Intro & Meet Kait Stephens
01:50 - Breastfeeding on Zoom: Hands-Free Parenting Hacks
03:08 - Kait’s Career Pivot: From Finance to Founder
10:45 - Kait’s IVF Journey & Emotional Toll
13:58 - Balancing IVF and Startup Life
18:00 - Crying at Work & Reframing Vulnerability
23:32 - Social Media Criticism & Gender Bias
28:42 - Marriage, Kids & “You” Time
41:31 - Sharing Family Online: Boundaries & Hangovers
45:19 - Hiring Gen Z: The Culture Clash
57:43 - Kait’s Superpower & Final Thoughts
More:
Brij Website: https://brij.it/
Kait Stephens on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/kait-margraf-stephens/
Newton Baby - https://www.newtonbaby.com
My Brest Friend Pillow – https://www.mybrestfriend.com
Modern Fertility – https://modernfertility.com
The Anxious Generation (Book) – https://www.anxiousgeneration.com
Tin Can (Kid’s landline alternative) – https://tincan.kids/
SIW Kait Lo Res
Speakers: Elara Hadjipateras, Diana Weil, Kait Stephens & Jon Gay
[Music Playing]
Voiceover (00:01):
Welcome to Steeped in Wellness, brought to you by matcha.com. Here we spill the tea on wellness trends, personal growth, and the latest health news. Now, here are your hosts, licensed dietician, Diana Weil, and medical journalist, Elara Hadjipateras.
Elara Hadjipateras (00:17):
Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Steeped in Wellness.
Diana Weil (00:21):
This week we are joined by Kait Stephens, who is the founder and CEO of Brij, an AI powered platform that helps consumer brands bridge the gap between offline retail and online engagement. With a background in finance and marketing from Georgetown and an MBA from Harvard Business School, she's built Brij into a leading tool used by over 150 brands to connect with customers beyond the point of sale.
Kait is also the host of the Omnichannel Marketer Podcast, where she speaks with founders and operators about building seamless cross-channel experiences. As a mom of two, she's passionate about redefining what balance looks like for modern entrepreneurs, blending leadership, family, and wellbeing, while advocating for more sustainable ways to grow both business and people.
Welcome, Kait.
Kait Stephens (01:01):
Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.
Diana Weil (01:03):
So, just reading your bio, you're busy. You're busy, I'm tired for you (laughs).
Elara Hadjipateras (01:13):
We wanted to know do you sleep? How do you sleep (laughs)?
Kait Stephens (01:17):
Well, when I meet people, they're like, “Oh, you're in it,” to use that. I do sleep. I aim to go to bed at 11 every night, it ends up being closer to 12. So, no, not getting the full eight hours, but I'm close enough.
Elara Hadjipateras (01:35):
So, we're also being joined by my youngest son, Archer today, very on topic. He knew that we were going to be talking about work and life balance, so he decided that now was a really good time to want to eat his food (laughs).
Kait Stephens (01:50):
Well, Elara, I love that you're doing this because it was very much a part of my journey. I had many Zoom calls where I was feeding my babies on those calls. I even had this setup where I had a pillow with the baby so I could breastfeed and type with two hands. So, like a handless situation so I could type or be on Zoom calls without needing to hold them directly. So, I had a whole setup.
Elara Hadjipateras (02:18):
You need to tell me more about this setup, because that's my thing, is like I've been trying to do so much stuff with one hand lately or I'll be working on Slack on my phone, and I feel like I'm starting to get carpal tunnel.
Kait Stephens (02:28):
Totally. It's like this flat feeder, I have to remember the brand, and then I would put a pillow rolled up underneath their head so it was kind of like a wedge. It was wedged on my breast so that I could feed in a hands-free way.
Elara Hadjipateras (02:45):
It might be the pillow called my Brest Friend or something.
Kait Stephens (02:48):
Yap, it's my Brest Friend. That's exactly the pillow.
Elara Hadjipateras (02:50):
It's the one that straps around your back.
Kait Stephens (02:52):
Yep, that's exactly right. I'm like it's not the Boppy, but what is the other brand? It's my Brest Friend.
Elara Hadjipateras (02:57):
So, it's worth it because I've been getting advertisements and I'm like, “Do I …”
Kait Stephens (03:00):
Oh, yeah, yeah, it's worth it. It's actually, I think, less expensive than the Boppy and it's a very quick Amazon purchase, so recommend.
Diana Weil (03:08):
Amazing. Can you just go into how you got to be where you are? Some background for people listening on like you’re a mom, you're a businesswoman, how did you get here?
Kait Stephens (03:19):
So, I started my career after undergrad in finance. Found myself in an investing role. So, most recently I was at PIMCO. I was investing in omnichannel future of retail. And what I loved about investing is that you got to see a hundred-foot view of a lot of different things, but I really felt myself itching, especially in this area of offline to online.
I knew that I was interested in starting a company or several. My dad was a serial founder. I felt like honestly, I was just a little bit nervous to take the plunge. And so, was very excited about this general retail space, thought there was an opportunity to build a business there, but I didn't exactly know what business I wanted to build.
Ended up going back to Harvard Business School with the sole purpose of figuring out what I was doing starting a company. So, had to be super intentional at school because business school is this really interesting experience where you already have work experience, but there's really interesting people to meet and you can get pulled in a thousand different directions.
And so, having blinders on what was important to me was really important so that I wasn't getting caught up in the FoMo of what's important to other people. And so, yeah, what that looked like was I was really laser focused on “I'm going to start a business, I'm going to learn how to start a business.” So I was taking all the entrepreneurial classes, but then also just networking with others who were interested in and doing a similar thing.
And I ended up taking this class called Startup Bootcamp, which was over January break of my first year, and I met my co-founder, Zack, there. And so, he's an engineer with his background and an engineering (degree) from Carnegie Mellon and we are super, super different.
So, we started chatting and working together while we were at school and decided that it was a fit. Ended up starting something different while we're at school which helped us stumble onto the pain point that we're focused on now at Brij which is when a brand sells through wholesale. So, think like Target, Walmart, Amazon, they lose that end relationship with the consumer. Turns out it's a multi-trillion-dollar problem that has really been the status quo for forever.
So, we discovered this problem and I was like, “Wow, this doesn't make any sense.” And then graduated in 2020 in COVID, which really ended up being an accelerant for a couple of different trends that we are already seeing in the market.
One was e-commerce adoption. So, it forced brands to go online and now know the power of owning customer data. So, I mean, I'm sure all of you have shopped online, it is a wonderful, personalized experience, but the reality is that you engage with brands across multiple different channels.
So, kind of created this dynamic where brands now know the power of data, they've set up online stores, Shopify kind of being the key technological enabler there as well as Amazon as more of this marketplace model.
The second key kind of consumer behavior shift was a QR code adoption. So, consumers were forced to scan QR codes in like a COVID won't touch anything world. And so, it really became this ubiquitous consumer behavior. Like everyone knows how to scan a QR code, including my mom. No one's going to be like, “Oh, I don't know how to scan a QR code anymore.”
Jon Gay (07:01):
QR codes were dead until COVID came along, and it resuscitated them.
Kait Stephens (07:06):
Yeah. And so, as we thought about this pain point, QR code became a key kind of distribution point or touch point from the offline world that could be a mechanism that we utilized. So, graduated in 2020, and launched Brij to bridge the offline and online for brands and focus first and foremost on first party data capture i.e., allowing a brand to have a direct relationship with the consumer.
So, couple of examples of what that looks like on the topic of baby products: Newton Baby is a customer of ours. They’re a popular breathable mattress. The vast majority of their sales are through Amazon, and then other retail channels.
So, Newton Baby also has other products outside of just their mattresses that they want to sell us. But even though you as a consumer have bought a Newton Baby mattress, they actually don't know you at all if you shopped it from Amazon, if you shopped it from retail.
And so, what Brij powers is warranty registration, and then you can also view other products from Newton baby. We tie all that data back to their platform. And so, that helps them sell more to you as a consumer because they can own that direct relationship. So, that's one example of where Brij shows up in the world.
So much life happened after that. That was about five years ago now.
Elara Hadjipateras (08:37):
Yeah, exactly. So, I'm thinking, how old are your daughters? You have two daughters, right?
Kait Stephens (08:40):
Yeah, I have two daughters. My daughters are three and a half and one and a half.
Elara Hadjipateras (08:45):
Nice and close in age.
Kait Stephens (08:47):
Honestly, it's fun. They're like besties, which is amazing. They also fight a lot, but they're also besties. There's quite a long personal journey that was happening simultaneously. While I was at business school, I actually did a modern fertility test.
I went into business school with a partner, I was actually married going into school which isn't necessarily always the case, but knew that I was delaying family planning for purposes of, like I was going back to business school, I knew I wanted to start my own company.
I did a modern fertility test just to check up on my fertility health and ended up finding out that I had a low AMH, which is an indicator of your egg quantity, which led me down this very long infertility journey where I then went to a fertility doctor, I did a retrieval against kind of my OB’s advice, which kind of is a whole nother discussion in its own right.
And then found out that I got zero embryos. So, went through an IVF cycle, got zero embryos which I actually found out in February of 2020, which was like right in line with massive COVID, basically the world shutting down.
And so, I didn't actually fully appreciate what that meant at the time, but then I ended up having a meeting with my doctor and then them being like, “Oh, you need to do IVF as aggressively and as quickly as possible.”
So, a very long IVF journey later, including, yeah, five rounds of retrievals, four failed transfers, two miscarriages. I now have two very healthy babies that I'm very, very thankful for. But it was a long, very, very dark journey for me that luckily, I could say I am on the other side of now, but it's really, really hard.
Jon Gay (10:54):
I can say from the male side, from experience Kait, my wife and I were going through our own IVF journey and we were doing it in 2020. And the heartbreaking thing for me as a husband, I couldn't go into the appointments with her because everything was so locked down for COVID.
And for us, it ended up happening that we ended up not having children. But you're describing that journey and we've talked about fertility a lot on this podcast before, and it is a very, very difficult thing, so I'm glad to hear it turned out well for you.
Kait Stephens (11:23):
It was really dark and at a time when … like early stage of my business was also really dark, that early stages of starting your own company is you're getting a thousand nos for every one yes. And basically, everything feels like you're running uphill. So, I would say it was a pretty dark moment despite it having positive outcomes on both sides, it definitely wasn't a pretty journey in the beginning.
Elara Hadjipateras (11:55):
Did you experience any guilt through having this really long process of having so much of your life dedicated towards your work? Did you feel like that was impacting your IVF journey and your fertility journey?
Kait Stephens (12:13):
It's a really great question. Almost the opposite, I think in a way I felt really proud of myself and I was like, “Oh my God, if I had not been so proactive about this IVF journey, I could be in a really bad situation.” So, I actually feel really happy that I was so active and anything proactive.
Again, I didn't go into detail here, but my OB at the time was like, “Oh, this isn't a big deal. Don't worry about low AMH, a lot of people can have low AMH.” And I was just like, “I don't know. I have this information, if I don't act on it and it ends up being a challenge down the road, I will never forgive myself.” And so, I took that, that was really important to me.
My initial plan was that I wasn't even going to think about having kids until I was a couple years out of business school. When served with this new information that it was going to be really hard for me, it was the number one priority immediately. Because there's so much about kind of child planning and fertility that is fully out of your control, frankly, in a way like far, even beyond that of the career journey, which some pieces feel out of control, but you have more control over.
Elara Hadjipateras (13:35):
For sure. The fertility journey was number one priority. How did you manage to balance doing this really difficult fertility journey, and then also kind of really accelerating at an incredible pace career-wise.
Did you ever feel like there were times where you were just like, “Oh my God, I'm canceling meetings left and right. I'm not feeling well” or like you had a ton of morning sickness and that was causing issues?
Kait Stephens (13:58):
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I have definitely developed a strong sense of resilience which I think I've always been like a tough person, but that I felt tested in both of these areas of my life, like built up more resilience, and then it was a little bit of compartmentalizing. Work for me has always been a really good distraction from frankly, the all-consuming nature of kind of fertility and or like family planning.
I feel really lucky in that I really enjoy what I do, which I very much kind of go into these zones. And so, where I'm pretty fully in it, and then I try to do a similar thing in my personal life as well. So, that allows me to be more present, but that was absolutely many moments of a lot of stress I would say.
Diana Weil (15:04):
I'm sorry, can I just take a second? Sorry, Elara, you can-
Elara Hadjipateras (15:07):
Take a second, Diana.
Diana Weil (15:08):
Just give me one second. (Steps away)
Elara Hadjipateras (15:10):
It's okay. So, I'm going to start crying because I know about Diana's journey, so I’m going to keep it together for all of us. But Diana's currently going through that process which as you know, Kait is very challenging and definitely struck on some heartstrings.
She already has a beautiful son named Ellio which thank the lord that he's here with us, but she just went through her second transition and it was her one embryo that was her little girl and unfortunately, she didn't stick so that's what a really tough process that she's been going through the last couple weeks. It's been a tough process just as her best friend to see her go through that.
When we've kind of been through this motherhood journey together of having our sons close in age and then we were kind of thinking the second round they were also going to be really close in age, and my son Archer, who I was just feeding on camera before, (Diana is his) godmother. So, it's just kind of a tough thing. So, she just probably needs a second, but I do think it's something that it will be cathartic for her to address and talk about.
Kait Stephens (16:21):
I can totally resonate with that really painful journey. And then simultaneously, I have a very close friend who just found out that she lost an early pregnancy so it's really hard. It brings me back to that really, it's dark, you have this excitement.
Elara Hadjipateras (16:38):
So, what helped for you when you had your losses? Did you experience any losses in between your first and second daughter?
Kait Stephens (16:47):
No, I didn't actually. My losses were both before, so I had four failed transfers before.
Elara Hadjipateras (16:58):
She’s back. (Diana returns)
Kait Stephens (17:00):
Sorry Diana to trigger that.
Diana Weil (17:02):
Sorry (laughs).
Kait Stephens (17:04):
No, no, no, don't apologize. I mean, one, I actually think that crying is incredibly stress relieving, and actually, I noticed you apologize for crying. I've also had people apologize to me for making me cry, but I actually think that you shouldn't, one first of all apologize for crying, or people will be like, “Oh, I'm afraid to bring up something because it makes you cry.”
About a couple of different months, I lost my dad actually or a couple days after I graduated from college, and obviously, I've had some losses in my fertility journey, but you're thinking about it whether or not someone talks to you about it. So, I am of the mindset that one, crying is very natural, a normal way that people reduce stress or cry out stress. Not everyone is a crier, I definitely am a crier.
I can't even tell you both in personal and professional, and then I too, I would rather someone let them know that they're thinking about me than not say something when you know it's something that you're thinking about a lot. It's actually this concept of the elephant in the room, it's like you're thinking about it, but just directly addressing it. So, anyway, that's my thoughts there.
Diana Weil (18:28):
No, I love that, thank you. I actually feel like I cry more when people are nice to me. Like when someone (laughs) says something that's nice.
Elara Hadjipateras (18:33):
Note to self, be meaner to Diana in podcast.
[Laughter]
Diana Weil (18:37):
Be mean, be really mean to me right now. Sorry. Anyways, let's actually talk about the apology. Because Elara was saying that one of the things she wanted to ask you about was especially as women, I think we apologize for being emotional-
Elara Hadjipateras (18:52):
Specifically millennial women. I think there's something about our generation where we are so apologetic in the work setting specifically. It's always, “Oh, sorry, I have to pick up my child early; oh, sorry.” And that's actually what caught my eye Kait, was some of the content that you've been putting out on social media, it really, really resonated with me where it was like, “I don't need to apologize for putting my family first.”
Kait Stephens (19:15):
Totally. So, just for the guests and for a little bit of context, I, about two years ago started creating content primarily for LinkedIn. It was with the goal of growing my business. It is actually the most effective marketing strategy for our business. That the channel being LinkedIn is I sell to brands, typically brand marketers.
They spend a lot of time on LinkedIn learning and connecting with their peers, so that's a really good channel. It's not different in strategy from kind of the way that brands and influencers will build kind of their brand on TikTok and Instagram, so it's like a very similar strategy.
My content primarily started out almost exclusively business-oriented. So, it was around omnichannel marketing, the future of retail, which is where our business kind of plays and what I'm a knowledge expert on.
What happened is I would occasionally discuss a few personal things like on national infertility day, I wrote a post about my fertility journey, just like I was coming into motherhood. So, kind of like that journey, the breastfeeding.
And when I posted those posts, I got so many people reaching out to me and just being like, “This resonates with me so much, please more.” And so, now, my content is probably like half personal and half professional.
And what's happened is that people resonate so much with this shared experience of motherhood or wanting a career while also being a mother, that I've leaned more heavily into it because I have very strong opinions in the space. And so, that's kind of the context.
And Elara, you're pointing to like I've done a lot of posts around kind of reframing the word “sorry.” And I think that just even female employees will apologize for … we use the word sorry too much. As females, one, just recognizing we overuse the word sorry, and correcting ourselves.
And so, actually most of my team is female. Not on purpose. It just seems to be who I attract. And when they apologize to me, I'll be like, “I don't think you needed to apologize there. Let's just catch the fact that you used sorry there.”
And then as it relates to parenthood and how that shows up in the workplace, yeah, apologizing, “Sorry, I need to go pick up my kids.” No. Just, I need to go pick up my kids, and then also, having on my calendar that this is my family time, and I'm going to be unavailable because I'm picking up my kids.
And so, really reframing parenthood not as something that you need to apologize, but something that you're communicating is part of what is important to you and your priority, and thus dictates when you're available and when you're not.
When I onboard a new employee, one of the first things that I talk to them about is my ways of working and when I'm available. And so, that includes, I'm like, I typically get home around 5:45, I'm offline from 5:45 to 7:30 because I'm doing bathtime and bedtime, and that's just like I'm going to be unavailable, and that's just expectation setting.
So, the “sorry,” and reframing kind of parenthood is just part of who you are and not needing to have this varied thick line between like okay, I'm at work versus I'm not, because for me, it's very overlapping, fluid, messy often situation.
Diana Weil (23:07):
One of the things when I was looking at your Instagram, I think that this is a topic that you're talking about, but you had a video go viral, and a lot of people were congratulating you for being a mom, and having this incredible career, but then there were also some really negative comments. I have a question about how do you just handle sort of those negative comments on social media, and general thoughts on that criticism that you face?
Kait Stephens (23:32):
So, the post that you're referencing is, I did like the 9 to 5, 5 to 9 trend or whatever. And I had literally ridiculous comments including this is the problem with America and what about your husband? And you spend no time with your kids. I think first and foremost, if you're creating content that you're going to get annoying people-
Jon Gay (24:01):
Trolls.
Kait Stephens (24:03):
So, trolls exist. They're real. The second is that I just tried to approach it with releveling how ridiculous I felt they were, without getting too emotionally charged about it. So, notably, like one of my comments back was, “I'm wondering if you would have the same feedback if a male posted this.”
Which honestly, was a lot of it and I even talked to some of my team about it. They're like, they'd be like, “If a guy got home at 5:30 and was doing bathtime and bedtime, they'd be like, ‘What a great dad.’ Here, they're like, ‘You're a terrible mom.’”
And so, I think that I just kind of remained levelheaded. I think to me, of course, I was emotionally charged up about it, but there's also ridiculous people in the world. I think it is a reminder that while we have made so many advances, both men and women are sexist against women- still very, very much so. And the expectations for women are just incredibly unfair across the side. There is really this “you cannot win” mentality put on by others.
But what I ground myself in is that I don't give a shit what they think because I know this is what one, makes me happy; two, is best for my girls and is best for my family, and what I like to be able to spend more time with my kids, sure.
I love how some of the comments are just like what I do expect me to have a 20-hour work week. I wish I could be in a financial position where I don't need to have a full-time job, but I'm building my business, it's a time in my career where I'm in it. It's a time in my personal life where I'm in it, but I prioritize the time that is important to me so that I can make both work.
Elara Hadjipateras (26:11):
How do you kind of pepper in “you” time? Like just time for yourself?
Diana Weil (26:16):
Do you have that, does that exist for you?
[Laughter]
Kait Stephens (26:18):
Honestly, that is the piece that I've made the biggest sacrifices on. I would say spending time with my daughters and work are kind of “me” time. I don't know if you can relate to this, but then after the weekend, going to work feels incredibly relaxing. But I did have Monday off and my husband actually had work, but we still had my nanny and I was like, “Wow, this is a great day for me.”
I went to a workout class, I did some life admin stuff, I got a facial. So, I don't do it enough and that's definitely the first thing that I sacrifice. For me, because I have a finite amount of time with the kids in the weekend and in the evenings, a lot of “me” time gets cut, I would say. That being said, I also keep a really strict schedule with our kids, and that creates a lot of flexibility as well.
So, both of my daughters go to bed at 7:00 PM. There's a lot of time that exists between 7:00 PM and 11:00 PM when I go to bed. So, you time, me time also happens then, including work dinners or personal dinners, I schedule them after my kids go to bed. And when I can, because that plays into my personal time.
Jon Gay (27:43):
One of the best things that I've seen — my wife has an executive role and the hours are long and she's often replying to emails, nights, weekends, things like that. She would get frustrated if she'd respond to something on a Sunday afternoon while I'm sitting on my butt watching football, and then the person responds immediately back to her.
And then the best thing she said she saw was in somebody's email signature, something to the effect of (I'm not going to get exactly right) — but it's something like, “Please note, I am responding to this email at a time that works for my schedule. Please do not feel obligated to respond back to me outside of your normal working hours.” And I thought that was awesome and just so kind for somebody to have that in their email signature.
Kait Stephens (28:25):
I've seen that before too, and I love that.
Elara Hadjipateras (28:27):
I love that.
Diana Weil (28:28):
Kait, I feel like when you're in it, when you're in it with your work and you're in it with your kids, what advice do you have for marriage? Keeping your marriage alive?
Kait Stephens (28:42):
Hi, that's a great question too. So, we try to have dinner together almost every single night after we put the kids to bed. Again, I'm not home every single night for dinner, but when we can, that's been a really helpful time for us to connect. And then date nights, ideally, once a month where we're just kind of getting out of the house and we just recently went to a Broadway play, spending that time just one-on-one.
And then we also went on a vacation just the two of us this past summer, which felt extremely luxurious, and I felt like I was bored for the first time in my life in a way that I was like, “I have so much time in my hands, what do I do?”
So, I would say that's probably an area where I'm not a hundred percent the best right now because work and family are taking a little bit more of my time, and there's only so much time that goes into the day, but that's what we do right now but I would say I could do better there.
Diana Weil (29:51):
That's tricky. Do you feel like you have a hard time when you're not busy, just not doing anything? Like I feel like if I have a minute, I'm like, okay, I have to be productive a hundred percent of my time, and I don't know what to do if I'm not being productive, and I also feel like there's something in my self-worth is now tied to being productive and there's like that has to also be disconnected in some way, you know.
Kait Stephens (30:12):
Yes, I heavily relate to that. I've called myself before an optimizer where I am looking for efficient use of every single minute and productivity of every single minute. I actually wrote about going on vacation with my husband. I was like, “Wow, this is really great, like feeling bored inspired a lot of different ideas, like having that space is actually really productive.”
And my husband commented on the post and he was like, “I'm going to remember that the next time that you tell me to be productive when I'm sitting on the couch.” Which felt just so real because I'm like always looking to be productive.
Diana Weil (30:51):
I do that with my husband too, and then I have to remind myself that I'm like, no, rest is good. It is okay for him to rest, but if he has five minutes, I'm like, “Why are you not doing something (laughs)?”
Jon Gay (31:01):
Kait, I want to go back to your point about LinkedIn and talking about the personal side of it because so much is negative on social media, and we talked about trolls a moment ago and the nastiness and political fighting and on down the line.
But the really good piece of social media is connection. It's connecting people. And I think for a lot of folks, especially LinkedIn where it's so much more business focused, and it's more “professional” and I've heard it called “Facebook for adults” and things like that.
One of my podcast clients actually, she has really grown her business much like you by putting personal stuff on LinkedIn, and obviously, nothing inappropriate. But showing the person behind the brand, behind the company, “Hey, I'm a real person. I'm struggling with these things too.” “Oh wow, I can really relate to that,” you really can build connections. So, I applaud you for putting yourself out there so much personally on LinkedIn.
Kait Stephens (31:55):
Thank you. That's what I found as well. It's allowed me to develop my own voice more. So, I think there's something about if you're writing something and putting it out to the world, you're really thinking it through. So, as a leader of a team, I've had to think through a lot of different issues from hiring to firing to building culture.
And so, it helps me refine and define what I think about that, especially if I'm going to put it out to the world, which has had an unintended consequence of better connecting me to my team, and then also better connecting me to future employees.
So, when we do put job descriptions out, we've had people who've been following us for a really long time and are excited to work for our company because they know what we stand for already because I feel like culture is one of those really difficult questions too.
Critically important thing — if you think about it, you spend more time at work than you do with your family, the people that you spend time with, like the culture that that company evokes is critically important, but how do you actually understand or know what it is or feel like it's one of those very difficult pieces? That's been a place where that's been really helpful.
And then on the personal side, yeah, there's just so many shared experiences. It's like we just went to Disney World and we had this situation where my daughter lost her autograph book and Disney exhibited what I would call unreasonable hospitality. which is they went over and above to make sure that my daughter was okay.
They gave her a free new autograph book and this sparked conversation with other people who had had similar experiences or how that's relevant to like I'm in the customer business, I'm in marketing and customer experience, so you know how we think about this.
And I shared that story at our team standup because I was like, how can we, Brij, exhibit unreasonable hospitality to our customers? So, I think you're touching on it, Jon, just kind of like this shared human experience that is relevant to both how we show up personally and professionally.
And I think early in my career, I think in an effort to appear professional that I thought of those two things as really separate, like my work self and my personal self, but I now think about them as really inextricably linked in a way that are not two separate things, like ones that learn from each other.
Elara Hadjipateras (34:38):
Kait, you just, in my mind, compared to my season of life I'm in right now, you just feel so put together. You're very structured in your approach, you're very good at putting everything in the calendar. How do you handle periods of burnout or feeling overwhelmed? Do you have a reset strategy?
Kait Stephens (34:55):
So, first of all, if I showed you my home screen right now, you would see that I have 30 open tabs and 500 screenshots on my desktop. So, there is appearance and then there's reality. The other thing is I also recognize that I like and appreciate organization, but I'm not good at setting it up myself. So, that's something that I look for, I know when I'm hiring team for others as well.
But to get back to the meat of your question on burnout, I think one thing is making sure that I have pockets of my day that I am really getting joy from and I've gone through the exercise before, and also on the converse, like what does not bring me joy, like what is energy draining? And for me, these both occur at work and at home.
And so, when possible, I am minimizing or eliminating as much of that energy draining motion as much as possible at work. I'm in the position where I can figure out what I enjoy doing and hire for what I do not enjoy doing to an extent. There's like a lot of shit that I have to do as CEO that is not fun that I have to do, but that's something that I actively look to do.
The other piece on burnout or just which I think is very much related to parenthood in general, I've been asked the question, will I lose my drive when I become a parent, or will I still be motivated? Because I mean my peer set of women and people is high achievers. So, that's kind of like a baseline.
So, I've been asked the question like, “Will I lose my motivation?” And in my opinion, if you are high achiever to begin with, and then have a child, that does not take away your motivation. What it does do though, is help you rethink how your time is spent because there is a much higher opportunity cost for spending time away from your kids.
And so, what I have sometimes seen is people, especially kind of in the early postpartum space where there's a lot going on; hormones, life, season of life, conflate, not wanting to go back to work or not wanting to work and not liking their job with work in general. So, for example, very specifically I had a friend who was like, “I don't know if I want to go back to work. Well, at least that's what I thought and then I just realized that I hated my job.”
And so, what I have seen in my peer set and feel as well is when you like your job and you think that you are spending your time in a meaningful way, you're excited and motivated whether or not you have kids. When you do have kids or something else that is important to you, the opportunity cost of that time just becomes that much more important.
So, that being said, I actually get a ton of energy from my job, and so, while I am extremely busy, I get a ton of energy from it. So, in my situation, if I was a full-time caregiver, that's like not enough me time, it's not enough work time personally.
Elara Hadjipateras (38:25):
I could never be a stay-at-home mom. I'm the same way where I couldn't wait. I was like chomping at the bit to get back to work. Diana had to literally be like, “Stop looking at Slack, turn off your notifications, be with your children, focus on them.” Because I find work to be very energizing because I love who I work with. But at the same time, I find child rearing … I absolutely love my children, they're incredible, but it's very draining for me.
So, personally, when I kind of feel overstimulated and there's a lot of mommy, mommy, mommy and touching, my tactics are I'll just take a hot shower just in the middle of the day, just take a hot shower, reset like that.
We have a couple dogs, as you've probably heard barking on the podcast (chuckles), so I'll just kind of be like, hey, I'm just going to take one of the dogs out for like 15, 20 minutes, I listen to my audio book, kind of just almost disassociate, reset, come back, and I'm ready to roll. Those have kind of been my top tactics as of late as someone who's really in it postpartum.
Kait Stephens (39:24):
Shower for me is so luxurious, and especially in postpartum. I just remember that time being like, wow, this … because also postpartum, when you're breastfeeding, you kind of smell a little bit and go shower.
Elara Hadjipateras (39:37):
Nobody talks about nursing. Yeah, you're just stinky, you're just stinky.
Kait Stephens (39:43):
So, a shower is absolutely de-stressor, luxurious. I also, interestingly enough have found writing very — it's like writing on LinkedIn is really journaling for me, it's reflection. So, I've really loved that time and just sometimes, mindless scrolling on your phone is within a box because it has its own negative implications as well if you spend too much time there, but sometimes it's a nice release.
Oh, and then finally, when you talk about kind of all of the stimulations, I definitely have auditory overstimulation. So, when I'm feeling really exhausted after we put the kids to bed, I would say like 7:15, 7:30 is my peak exhaustion and just overstimulated. I just want all sound off; I don't want the TV on, I don't want music on because I'm already overstimulated from all the kids basically, so I like quiet.
Diana Weil (40:44):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Jon Gay (40:46):
The scrolling thing is funny to me because my wife who has to deal with calls all day- when we're sitting on the couch at night watching TV or watching mindless YouTube or whatever it is, she's just scrolling her Instagram feed and I'm like, “Are you even here?” And she's like, “I have had to “people” all day; I need this mind candy brain rot stuff to just reset.”
Diana Weil (41:10):
Yeah, disassociate, I guess. And speaking of social media, I love when people share their families and I find it so helpful to see people's families, but I also know that that can come with a dark side. And I'm curious for you how you feel. Do you have any hard and fast rules when it comes to sharing your family on social media?
Kait Stephens (41:31):
I have been very open with sharing my family on social media, including their names and their faces. I know that there are a lot of thoughts around not sharing faces as it relates to kind of like AI image recognition, not sharing names. What I don't share is direct location so there's not some super, crazy creeper trolls.
Primarily, my content interweaves family, but is primarily professional. So, I like nowhere near, I'm near the kind of extent to which content or family is needed as it relates to being like a lifestyle, blogger or content creator.
So, all that being said, it's a conversation that I've had a couple of times with my husband that I'm kind of just like I'm an open book, this is like it is what it is. Like there's a line on like safety. But outside of that, I've found that the more I share, the more I feel, Jon, to your point, connection with people really across multiple different dimensions, and so that's kind of been my philosophy there.
Diana Weil (42:45):
Do you ever get a vulnerability hangover? Like if you share something like your fertility journey, and you share that at first it kind of feels good, but then there's this moment of like, “I just shared that with a lot of people that I don't know.”
Kait Stephens (42:56):
Oh, absolutely. But then I take a step beyond that and I see how many people that it affects in such a positive way that I totally get over the hangover or the “ick.” Yeah, using the infertility journey for example, I've had random people who I've never met in person message me or come up to me in person and be like, “You shared your infertility journey, my husband and I are going through something similar. I just wanted to say thank you, that really helped us.”
Because there's something extremely isolating around infertility that just knowing someone else is going through or has been through something similar, and also in a really challenging way because I think there's all these dimensions of infertility where you're like, “Oh, well, you had infertility, but it was not that bad.”
And so, there's all these different angles there. And so, the short answer is yes, absolutely. However, it has been so outweighed by just the help that it has done. And so, yeah, I think that leading with vulnerability, I've found really opens others up to share things with you as well which invokes deeper human connection.
And I would say, Elara, you described me as kind of put together. That has really been my kind of personality my entire life actually almost to an extreme in that I was seen as unapproachable or cold even, which is not actually my personality, but it is a vibe I give off.
And so, actually, my vulnerability in sharing has really, I think helped my not get that cold impression, or people-intimidating has been another word used to describe me. So, I think that's been a good offset to kind of maybe the vibe I bring.
Elara Hadjipateras (44:59):
Yeah, you're the sweetest, Kait. I mean, I think you're incredibly impressive but I've never, I don't know, think of you as cold.
Kait Stephens (45:06):
Yeah, it's helped, I guess. Maybe people who don't know me have gotten that vibe, but it's helped being able to share more about my thoughts and feelings, I guess.
Elara Hadjipateras (45:19):
So, I know that you mentioned that you have an amazing team of mostly female, coincidentally, Jon's kind of the only guy we work with routinely. Diana and I also have just a team of amazing women that we work with, a lot of them are younger.
And something that we've dealt with in hiring the younger generation of Gen Zers compared to us Millennials, is they seem to really prioritize their personal lives over their work. And so, my question to you is kind of like what do you think that they get right and what do they get wrong compared to us Millennials?
Diana Weil (45:50):
That’s a good question.
Elara Hadjipateras (45:53):
I just remember interviewing some people and them just being like, “You know what, I'll take the job, but I need Monday and Friday off. I'm working remote or this and that.” And I'm like, they are like demanding these things versus I was just happy to get my foot in the door in my 20s, happy to have a job, eager, ready to do whatever.
I was working holidays. I used to work in broadcast television. So, I was working six, seven days a week sometimes, crazy overnight shifts, and now they seem a lot less flexible in that department, but I'm like, is it me or is it them?
Diana Weil (46:23):
That's because we came up in the age where there were no jobs (laughs).
Jon Gay (46:27):
That's a fair point.
Diana Weil (46:28):
Like I couldn't even get a serving job, I remember when I was like 18, like there were no jobs available.
Jon Gay (46:33):
I remember sitting here at college graduation in 2002 where they're like, “Parents, don't think you threw away four years of tuition money, the jobs just aren't out there right now.”
Diana Weil (46:41):
Yeah. Sorry, Kait, I guess I want to apologize, I want to hear Kait's (laughs)-
Jon Gay (46:46):
Don't apologize, Diana.
Diana Weil (46:48):
I know. Sorry, I said sorry.
Kait Stephens (46:50):
So many thoughts including, I wonder if that's going to shift now with kind of like AI taking early new job entrants, but that was just like a thought.
I have hired some of said Gen Z who thinks they're God's gifts to earth, and some have definitely not worked out, including someone who worked for me for like two weeks and thought that he was going to keep this company laptop as like his ownership, so many things.
Gosh, I wish I could unpack a little bit more about why this dynamic exists. I think that there's some element of like, yeah, we need to chill out a little bit as millennials. However, I do appreciate our just general work ethic as a generation.
What I've seen in I would say across the board, there's a challenge in Gen Z in their kind of, it just like almost seems like privilege. Like they feel like it is their right to just have this job entirely on their terms generally. However, what I've seen is there are stars that exist within that, and that's what we look for in the hiring side.
And so, first of all, all of Gen Z are creators, which is its own interesting dynamic. But some of them are really incredibly self-made, incredibly resourceful and that's what we try to hire.
So, the short answer is, Elara, I don't have an answer for you. We have hired some crazy, ridiculous people who no longer work at this company. There's definitely a generational shift in how people approach work. I think that there's something that we could all learn from, like I said, chilling out a little bit.
Jon Gay (48:52):
Rather than just saying it's only Millennial versus Gen Z, do you think a piece of it too goes back to how everybody was raised? Were they raised from a position of privilege where they didn't have to need anything versus raised in a way that they had to scratch and claw to get what they want regardless of generation?
Elara Hadjipateras (49:07):
Depending on their class that they grew up in, in terms of like-
Jon Gay (49:09):
I don't want to sound classist either, but I think you're onto something with that Elara. Like what you earned versus what was handed to you, I suppose.
Elara Hadjipateras (49:19):
I don't think that impacts it personally because I've seen it across the board personally, like in my hiring and firing experiences.
Kait Stephens (49:28):
There could be parenting styles though, where, I mean, if you think about kind of gentle parenting and the concerns with how gentle parenting could lead to soft kids. I am trying to think about what is the profile of like a generation Gen Zish parenting.
Also, I mean, I don’t know, this is really off topic, but TikTok, like social media as just like the … other qualities of Gen Z are less … it's like there's their work style, but like they're also less social, they're spending more time.
Like they all had devices at like 10. They Snapchat like a hundred times a day, TikTok and that is like their social, which is primarily through a device. That’s like a whole stream of thought about The Anxious Generation.
If you've read that book about how our kids will be, there's going to be like a whiplash from that because we don't want our kids to be obsessed with social media at six-years-old, so they're not going to have phones or at least that's likely the reaction to what didn't work there.
Elara Hadjipateras (50:46):
Have you seen … there's that company that came out called Tin Can that's reinventing-
Kait Stephens (50:49):
No, I haven’t.
Elara Hadjipateras (50:51):
So, they're reinventing the home phone having like the-
Diana Weil (50:55):
I love that.
Kait Stephens (50:55):
That’s hilarious.
Elara Hadjipateras (50:56):
Just like the Rolodex phone and it comes with a little piece of paper where it's: write down your friend's name and their number, and it's like the phone rings and you don't know who's calling you.
And it teaches kids skills of you have to talk on the phone, and at the same time, someone else could pick up the other phone line and be listening to conversation. I don't know if you guys remember growing up with those.
Jon Gay (51:15):
Oh my gosh, I think you mean Rotary, not Rolodex. Your younger Millennial is showing (laughs).
Elara Hadjipateras (51:21):
Yeah. See, there we go. Sorry, I'm exposing myself.
Jon Gay (51:23):
I’m the elder Millennial; I remember the Rotary phone.
Diana Weil (51:28):
Kait, what do you hope you give your girls in terms of work ethic? What do you hope that they grow up feeling about? Do you want them to be female founders? Is there anything that you want them to grow up to be?
Kait Stephens (51:42):
Yeah, that's a really great question. One, I want them to be able to be happy. And so, to figure out what it is in their life that gives them gratification and happiness. So, that I would say is my number one goal. I think that establishing work ethic as an important part of their upbringing is one, I want them to be hard workers so that they appreciate what they have and what they're able to earn.
I think that I've personally seen something that is given to you is not nearly as satisfying as something that you earn. I know I've seen that in my own career, so would love that kind of work ethic and gratification experience.
Would I want them to be founders? If that's what makes them happy, sure. So, just like helping them figure out what makes them, gosh, I think really happy is that piece there, to have a gratifying and satisfying life.
Elara Hadjipateras (52:52):
Happy and well fed. I don't know about you, but it's like I have an obsession with feeding and regular bathroom schedules. It's like that's it, it's just happiness, going to the bathroom, eating food, sleep.
Kait Stephens (53:03):
That’s because the alternative is potentially hungry and both myself and both of my girls absolutely are hangry if they're not well fed, so.
Diana Weil (53:12):
I feel that way too. I have one more question before we wrap up. For someone who is feeling lost in their career and hasn't found something that is satisfying for them, do you have any advice for those people who might be struggling with what to do?
Elara Hadjipateras (53:25):
Who coincidentally also have a young family, so they're just kind of like into that, like do I work? How do I launch a career while also having young children?
Kait Stephens (53:35):
One thing that I like to ask people across whenever I'm chatting with people about careers or even when I'm hiring for our own company, I ask, “What is your superpower?” And so, what I'm looking for there is what are you naturally great at? Because that would be the first thing is ideally, you want to be doing something from a career perspective that is amplifying what you enjoy and what you are best at, there's almost that concentric circle there.
The second is what just naturally interests you. So, for example, I was giving someone career advice. So, what naturally interests you as well as like where is the market going? So, i.e., there's going to be a lot of opportunity there to be an expert.
So, I was giving someone career advice recently really unhappy in their job, and I was like, “Well, do you have any interest in kind of the development in AI? Like there's so much to learn and she was like, “I do.”
So, I was becoming an expert in something that you're interested in, but that also is a growing portion of that pie is a really interesting, like if anyone wants to upskill themselves, that's probably the best place to do so right now in terms of just wealth of opportunities.
And so, I think it's an exercise in self-reflection and thinking about what is there in kind of the scope of your day to day right now that brings you joy, how can you match that to a career, and then is there a piece that also aligns with where the market is growing so that there's just positioning yourself with ample opportunity.
On the piece of, and you have a family, I think that we are in a world now where all of those things can happen simultaneously. If you want a fully remote job, those exist. If you want to work from home, that is possible. If you want to work in the office, that is also possible.
The democratization of work and access to work is insane now in this post-COVID world in a great way. Our team is global, that's okay, it allows you to access all this different talent literally across the world.
And so, I think that that is net positive to parents because depending on the stage they're in life, maybe when your kids are a little bit older and they're in school all the time, then you do want to go to an office. But when you're in this young age, that's really not realistic. And so, I think that all of those opportunities are available to parents, even young parents now because you can dictate kind of the terms on which that you're willing to work.
So, my high-level piece of feedback that I give, that I just feel strongly about that I would give as both advice and that just in general feel strongly about is that I think that there's a lot of dialogue that tells women, parents that they cannot do these things, that they can't recreate their career. And so, thus, it just instills this fear that leads often sometimes women to just step back or “lean out,” to use Sheryl Sandberg's terminology there.
And I found that when you just give it a try and you set the boundaries that work for you in your life, you realize, “Oh wait, I can do this. I can have this career that I'm excited about and a family.” I just think that there's a lot of really unfair dialogue that listen, it's hard, it is messy, but there's no reason why you can't do both, and I actually think that I've learned so much from being a parent that makes me a better employee, a better leader because man, multitasking, negotiation skills. That is my parting thought.
Elara Hadjipateras (57:43):
So, I mean, Kait, now I have to know, what is your superpower?
Kait Stephens (57:49):
I’m really good at connecting with people. So, when I figure out who I want to be connected with, I'm almost one or two degrees and I can get to that person. So, yeah, I'm a connector.
Elara Hadjipateras (58:04):
Connector, I like that. So, normally, we ask these two questions at the end of every podcast, and I do want to let Kait know the first one. We haven't prepped you on them so just kind of off the cuff, what comes to mind.
Diana Weil (58:17):
So, Kait, what is something, like a life lesson or a motto that you have learned from someone else important to you or something that someone has taught you?
Kait Stephens (58:27):
So, my dad used to always say it's the journey, not the destination, which I really resonate with. Because it's not like one milestone, it's not like the big promotion at work or like the fundraise or the child, whatever it is. It's like it's the journey of doing these things together. Obviously, those are big, important milestones, but kind of enjoying the path that you're on really resonates with me.
Elara Hadjipateras (59:00):
I love that. The time in between the seams is what I like to call it. That's where the magic happens. What about anything coming to mind recently that maybe is a lesson you've had to learn the hard way besides hiring Gen Zers who wanted to take their laptops home?
Kait Stephens (59:22):
So, I mean I think people management is extremely difficult. I think that everyone wants to be liked, and I think that … okay, there's a couple lessons here.
One is being focused, like as a leader, sometimes you have to make really hard decisions, and you should always be kind, but you have to make difficult decisions and you should do so quickly because that is what is best for the business and for individuals.
And the second is (and I've learned this the hard way a couple times) that people want to get heard, feel heard and understood. And so, the delivery of the same message, like language and kind of making sure people feel heard and understand in delivering that message will completely change the perception of that which is received.
I've learned that the hard way a couple of times where it's not been delivered properly or been too quick, or just a slack message that really should have been a phone call. And so, I think really just kind of understanding the human element of the information that someone's receiving and making sure that you're making sure that they receive it the right way.
Diana Weil (01:00:41):
Yeah, I think what you said about people really just … people need to feel heard and understood, and that can take a conversation from a 10 to a 2.
Well, Kait, this has been fantastic. You are an inspiration; I love all of your messages. I'm going to try to say sorry less, which is difficult (laughs), but where can people find you? And if they are interested in your company, where can they get more information?
Kait Stephens (01:01:08):
So, follow me on LinkedIn at Kait Margraf Stephens, and then more information about our company at Brij.it.
Diana Weil (01:01:21):
Well, thank you so much.
Kait Stephens (01:01:22):
Thank you, Diana. Thank you, Elara. Thank you, Jon. I appreciate it.
[Music Playing]
Voiceover (01:01:26):
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