In this episode of The Matcha Guardians Podcast, we dive into an intimate conversation with Mike Reagan, an end-of-life doula and CEO of The Natural Funeral. Building on the previous week's discussion with Seth Viddal, this episode explores the often-overlooked role of end-of-life doulas and the compassionate care they provide during the final stages of life.
Mike Reagan begins by debunking the common misconception that end-of-life doulas always know the right things to say. He emphasizes the importance of presence and listening over having a set of prepared responses. Drawing from his extensive experience, he shares that being fully present allows the natural flow of meaningful and comforting words, fostering a peaceful environment for those nearing the end of their lives.
Reagan explains the role of an end-of-life doula as one that complements hospice care by providing additional support to both patients and their families. Unlike hospice teams constrained by limited visit durations, end-of-life doulas offer continuous, holistic care, helping families navigate the emotional and practical aspects of death. This includes everything from planning the vigil to ensuring that the dying person's wishes are respected and honored.
A significant part of the conversation addresses the broader societal discomfort with discussing death. Reagan advocates for normalizing these conversations, suggesting that it can lead to a more fulfilling life and a more peaceful death. He shares moving anecdotes from his experiences, such as a patient named Danny who found comfort and wisdom in his final days and another patient whose fear transformed into peace through compassionate care.
The discussion also touches on the benefits of incorporating rituals and personal preferences into the dying process. Whether it's choosing the room for the final moments or deciding on the presence of certain scents and sounds, these personal touches can make the end-of-life experience deeply meaningful for both the patient and their loved ones.
The conversation naturally extends to the controversial topic of medical aid in dying. Reagan shares his insights and experiences, highlighting the importance of giving terminally ill patients the autonomy to choose their end-of-life path. His advocacy for reducing the waiting period for medical aid in dying prescriptions underscores the need for compassionate policies that respect patients' wishes. This led to the passage of Colorado's Medical Aid in Dying Law, which should not be confused with assisted suicide.
Throughout the episode, Reagan's dedication to serving with love and presence is evident. He emphasizes that the ability to provide comfort and peace at the end of life is available to everyone, not just professionals. By quieting our minds and opening our hearts, we can all offer meaningful support to those nearing the end of their lives.
In conclusion, Mike Reagan's insights shed light on the transformative role of end-of-life doulas and the profound impact of compassionate care. By fostering open conversations about death and embracing the natural process of dying, we can create a more supportive and loving environment for those we love and ourselves.
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Welcome to The Matcha Guardians Podcast, brought to you by matcha.com. Here we focus on the biggest trending health topics of our time, featuring the greatest and upcoming wellness advocates. Now here are the Matcha Guardians, licensed dietitian, Diana Weil, and medical journalist Elara Hadjipateras.
Elara Hadjipateras:
Hello, and welcome to the second installment of our two-part episode.
Diana Weil:
Last week we had the chance to speak with Seth Viddal, who is in Colorado and a part of the Natural Funeral team.
And this week we are talking to Mike Reagan. Seth focuses on the funeral aspect of this and Mike Reagan is a death doula, end of life doula, who's also the CEO of the Natural Funeral Home. And someone that I'm really excited to speak with, especially as I've worked with birth doulas.
Mike, you are sort of on the opposite end as an end-of-life doula and yeah, welcome.
Mike Reagan:
Well, thanks Diana and Elara. It's really wonderful to be here.
Elara Hadjipateras:
So, Mike, to start us off, I think a lot of people much like myself, we get a little uncomfortable speaking about death. It's kind of this icky topic, but ironically, it's something that we all have in common. We're all going to die, have an end of life, yet it's something that a lot of people don't like talking about.
And I think something that I've already felt from our conversation last week with Seth is that you all at the Natural Funeral do a very good job of making people comfortable with their end-of-life journey, and dare I say, even enjoyable.
And it being something people should look forward to, and it can be a really beautiful day in someone's life versus one of the worst days in someone's life.
So, going back to kind of what my questions is, as an end-of-life doula, you're probably very good at knowing the right things to say to someone when maybe someone kind of has a loss of words. So, can you speak to us more about the bedside manner of being an end-of-life doula?
Mike Reagan:
Sure. It’s a great question, but I'll push back on your assumption that I happen to know the right things to say.
In fact, I started off as a hospice volunteer. That's really what introduced me to end of life care. And in that role, I entered with tremendous enthusiasm and was so excited to get going on that. And I went through training, how to sit with folks at the end of life.
And one of my expectations for that training was that I would come out with this tool belt and this sort of quiver full of all the right arrows and words to use and things to know and say.
And what I can honestly share with you after having served hundreds, if not thousands of people at the end of life, is that the most important thing is to be present and to listen, and to not try and reach into that tool belt and pull out the right words.
Being present allows what should naturally surface to surface and the right words to say come in the moment as a result of being present.
Diana Weil:
I know what a birth doula is, but I'm not actually sure what an end-of-life doula is. Can you just explain what that means?
Mike Reagan:
It's a beautiful role that has been introduced recently into the world of end-of-life care. And it really fills a gap that's existed for a while. It's a role that an individual plays that really complements hospice organizations.
If you think about a hospice organization, they serve people that have been given less than six months to live as a prognosis. And they apply an interdisciplinary team of a physician, and a nurse, and a CNA, and a social worker, and a chaplain, and oftentimes, a volunteer.
And that team is there to serve that individual from the point at which they enter hospice until the point at which their journey here as a human being ends.
And unfortunately, there are governmental constraints over how much time hospice organizations are allowed to spend with individual patients.
And so, with a good well-staffed and well-financed hospice organization, a patient may get a handful of visits a week from their hospice team, and those visits are usually around an hour, sometimes less.
But in reality, families, particularly in our society here in the States, could really use a lot more support dealing with this end-of-life process. And by that, I mean everything from just understanding what the end-of-life experience serves up to that patient.
Some patients have family surrounding them, and those family members are not well versed in this experience. So, they don't know what to expect. They tend to back off rather than lean in, because that's how society encourages us to deal with sick people. And, “Oh, let the professionals deal with it.”
Well, this is your loved one that's been given a terminal diagnosis. It's a blessing for them to get permission to lean in, to get in and cuddle with their loved one. And I've heard that's okay. I'm like, yeah, it's absolutely okay. Let's make sure that they're comfortable with that and that's something that they want.
But an end-of-life doula is really a guide for families and the individuals themselves that have been given that terminal diagnosis to help them understand that the end-of-life process. For most people in our society, it’s one of fear, uncertainty, and even personal grief for that person that's dying.
And with the guidance of an end-of-life doula, that period, the last chapter of their journey here on earth and their story here can be one of peace, of connection and very deep meaning and comfort. And an end-of-life doula provides services to enable that.
Diana Weil:
So, I know that with a birth doula, part of the role is to support the partner as well as the birthing person. You know that that's a big role. And you kind of mentioned it in just your description that you're there for the person who is in hospice, but that also, maybe supporting the family.
Is that a similar role as a birth doula, that you're also there to support the family to support like the person who's dying? Or how does that work?
Mike Reagan:
No, you're spot on, Diana. The scope of service that an end-of-life doula provides encompasses everyone that's surrounds the patient that's facing the end of life.
And that service can range from helping a loved one, maybe a spouse, build an end-of-life plan for their loved one. That may include facets of sort of tying up finances, of engaging with a funeral home to make sure that the loved one’s wishes are respected and carried out once they do pass. It may be planning a ceremony after the death that aligns with their wishes.
But it's also a more intimate consideration of the end of life, a period we call the vigil, when a patient enters that stage of active dying. That can be a couple of hours, it could be a few days.
And it's really important for the patient themselves, as well as family members, to know what everyone would like when that time comes, because it will come. There are beautiful things to consider.
For example, would the patient like to be at home? If they'd like to be at home, what room would they prefer to be in? When they're in that room, what's the best view? How should we position the bed? Would you like the window open? Would you like it closed?
Would you like flowers? Would you like some essential oils in the room to create a scent that's pleasant? Would you like some music? If so, what kind of music?
Do you want to have visitors? If so, who do you want? And by the way, is there anyone you don't want to come by? (Jon laughs)
And there's a story of a woman that was planning her own vigil with a doula, and the doula asked about visitors.
And this woman said, “Oh, yeah, I want visitors. But here's the deal, I want to have a chair outside my room so that anyone that comes to visit me, they have to sit in that chair first. And I want them to think about something they're grateful for. And after they've done that, they can enter my room because I know their heart's going to be in the right place.”
And we're all so busy and we get caught up in our own lives, and not only do we not know how to just be present and quiet and sense what's going on, we got all this noise going on in our head.
And I absolutely love that woman's wisdom to ask for that chair. That’s something we should all do. If not sitting in a chair, certainly do it before you enter a room.
Elara Hadjipateras:
Mike, have you noticed as far as working with certain clients at their end of their life, that they just all of a sudden get this amazing wisdom bestowed upon them? Like they just become very well-spoken?
Mike Reagan:
Yes, I have. I can tell you it has not been universal, but it's been very common for me. And I'll share a story with you. I was serving a patient and I'll call him Danny. I never use my patient's real names when I share their stories.
Danny was dying of a tumor. He was dying of cancer. He had a big tumor on the side of his face, was something he was quite embarrassed about. And Danny had been a recluse for most of his life.
And when I first met Danny, he was quiet, he was reserved, and he felt embarrassed about this tumor on his face. So, he had a handkerchief that he would place over his tumor because it was oozing, and it was something he thought would be unpleasant for anyone that met him.
And I said, “Hey, Danny, if you're covering that for me, you don't have to. I'm totally cool with it.” And he's like, “Seriously?” I'm like, “Yeah, don't worry about it.” And so, he let the handkerchief drop.
And then I explained to him that I performed something called comfort touch. Which is kind of like gentle acupressure on the hands and feet that can help people relax and sometimes even relieve pain.
And so, I explained that to him, and I said, “Hey, would you like me to try it on you?” And he said, “Okay.” And so, I started doing comfort touch on Danny, and I could see him physically relax.
And I'll often say to my patients when I'm working with them and doing comfort touch, I'm like, “Hey, if you don't want me to talk or if you don't want to talk, that's totally cool. I'm just here to serve you in whatever way you need.”
And so, we didn't really talk for a couple of minutes, and I got to his feet, and as I was working on his feet, he said, “I just remembered something I haven't thought about in ages, and I don't think I've ever told anyone this before.”
And I said, “Well, would you like to tell me, Danny?” And he said, “Yeah.” And I think the demonstration of unconditional love, it's like, “Look, dude, I don't care if you got this huge tumor in your face. I'm just here to serve you in any way I can.”
That enabled sort of a wall both separating him and me as well as maybe a wall to emotions that he's had up for a while to kind of melt.
And he said, “I remember being probably around three years old on my tricycle in my driveway in Iowa. And I remember seeing the sun coming up over the trees and thinking to myself, I used to be part of that light.” And yeah, I'm getting goosebumps just sharing that story.
And I just let that story just sit for a minute, and then I said, “Danny, can I ask you a question?” He said, “Sure.” I said, “When you thought that thought to yourself when you kind of said, ‘I used to be part of that light,’ do you think you really were separated from the light at that time, or was it just your perception at that time?”
And he stopped for a minute and looked up at the ceiling, and then he looked back at me, and he said, “It was just my perception at the time.”
And to your question, Elara, that's an example of just the surfacing of incredibly deep wisdom that this man who was two days away from dying, realizing I'm part of that light still. And I knew that implied in his response was that he knew he was returning to that light, and what a beautiful thing for him to share with me.
Elara Hadjipateras:
And it was comforting for him. It sounds that he was coming to terms and pretty comfortable with his end-of-life journey, which is, for me, as someone who I would say is I'm a scaredy cat. I'm scared of death. I don't know what to expect. It's very overwhelming to me.
That gives me a ton of comfort that there will be these moments I think throughout our lifetime, not even just right at the end, where you just kind of become more comfortable with this being the natural process. Right?
Mike Reagan:
Yeah, absolutely. If you're up for it, I got another story that kind of reflects someone that's very afraid at the end.
Diana Weil:
Oh, yeah, please.
Elara Hadjipateras:
Yes, please. I think that that's something that a lot of listeners could probably relate to. At least the scaredy cats like me out there.
Mike Reagan:
Sure. So, I guess it's valuable for me to tee up the, sort of, my standard ritual. When I enter the room of one of my patients, I do the same thing every time. I'll stop at the door, and I'll mentally do a check.
And I will sort of check all of my stuff at the door and take anything that's busy in my head or something that's been on my mind and maybe something that's coming up and try and check it so I could just be present with my patients.
And then I say a quick little silent prayer, the prayer of St. Francis and I say, “Please make me a channel of your peace.” And then I enter the room. And how I can be a channel is left up to the situation.
I just quiet myself and I try and allow that to happen. In this case, when I entered the room, my patient was absolutely terrified. She was actively dying, but her eyes were open, her body was rigid with fear, and her eyes were darting back and forth and back and forth.
And I went in, and I introduced myself to her. And I took her hand and I let her know that I was there just to accompany her and to serve in any way that might help her at this time. And she remained rigid.
And I tend to open up to what surfaces for me as the right thing to do. And for her, I sensed that it was important for me to stand at her side so she could look at me, and I could look at her. And I just knew that she was petrified. And what I also knew was that she had absolutely nothing to fear.
And so, I took her left hand with my left hand, and then I just gently stroked the top of her head. And without actually spoken words, I just silently communicated to her, you are so loved. You are so loved. And looking in my eyes, she immediately relaxed and then she let go.
And I think that woman's demeanor, unfortunately, is not uncommon. We have this sense, this fear, and, Elara, you commented, you're like, “I'm kind of a scaredy cat.” And I can honestly say that from what I've witnessed, the transitions are absolutely beautiful.
I'll do one more just because it was one of the most moving ones I ever had. And there was a patient I was serving, I showed up, checked myself at the door, walked in, she was actively dying. She was not conscious.
But I still go through the same routine, I introduce myself. And then I usually sit down, I'll take their hand and I silently communicate that I'm just a soul, just like them and I'm here to walk with them on the final leg of their human journey.
And then normally in my mind's eye, I see the two of us walking into the distance, usually with a perspective from behind.
With this particular patient, she was a woman in her early 50s. I think she was dying from ALS.
And when I sat with her and I took her hand, and I did that silent communication, “I'm just a soul here to accompany you and serve you in any way that I can,” in my mind's eye instead of seeing the two of us from behind, I saw her on the other side of her body. And she raised both of her hands and said, “Yes, yes!” And then she passed.
And I had never experienced anything like that. And I just knew it was very real. And that she took that moment being accompanied by someone that was there with unconditional love to support her, to give her the permission to let go and to let her know that it's okay to let go. That's what she needed to let go.
And that on the other side of that experience was complete bliss. She was thrilled. And then after she passed, she was at a hospice care center at the time, I went out and I told the hospice nurse that she had passed, and they did the check in and paperwork and I went and sat with another patient.
And then when I came out, about 30 minutes later, that woman's sister had arrived, and she approached me and said, “I understand you were the person that was with my sister at the end.” And I said, “Yes, I was.”
And I explained to her that she passed very peacefully, not long after I sat down with her. And her sister raised her hands and said, “Yes, yes! She's been struggling for so long.” And it was the exact movement that her sister had done when she passed.
And so, you can't make this stuff up. This is just the beautiful experience that I've had the privilege of witnessing. And I've been told by many that it's comforting to hear these stories and to know that you don't have to be afraid. You don't have to be afraid.
Jon Gay:
Mike, we've done other episodes in this series regarding energy, and that seems to be the recurring theme of what you're talking about here. We've talked about Reiki, we've talked about all kinds of healing energy.
To me, it's almost like you're reading the energy in the room when you're with these patients. And it also strikes me, the word you keep using over and over again is serve. Not work for, not help, but serve. It really strikes me that you keep using that specific word.
Mike Reagan:
Yeah. Well, that's what we're doing. And by the way, what I experience and what I sense, (and I love your tie in with energy) that's available to everyone. And I work with the families of these patients to let them know that it's there.
If they simply sort of get rid of their own stuff, quiet their minds, and find the ability to just be present and to be aware and to open their heart, there's no judgment of themselves. Am I doing the right thing? Am I saying the right … should I sit like this? There's no judgment.
There's no judgment of the patient of themselves or anyone else. You're just opening your heart to a way that you might be able to serve this person in the last moment of need. And beautiful things surface when people do that. Yeah, it is energy. Jon, you're absolutely right.
Elara Hadjipateras:
And I think one of the other things you bring, Mike, is love. Just this kind of all this love comes into the room.
So, one of the questions I have is, how do you keep your level of love so high? Like do you ever find that after a day, if working with several patients who have passed away, that you are drained doing this type of work? How do you keep your love arsenal just all fueled up all the time?
Diana Weil:
How do you take care of you?
Elara Hadjipateras:
Yeah. How do you take care of you while taking care of so many people in this really hard transitional moment?
Mike Reagan:
Well, thank you. It's a good question. And I know that I've worked with just some absolutely amazing individuals in hospice care. And that's very difficult work.
And I think for hospice workers, it's different because they've got so many things that they have to perform. And yet most people that work in hospice do so because they're drawn to that work from their heart.
And it's a struggle for them because they've got to do the paperwork, they've got to make sure all the processes and procedures they're performing are done in accordance with their manuals. And there's a lot of responsibility.
And for many of them, that outweighs the amount of time they can spend opening their heart and serving. As an end-of-life doula, I'm able to just be and serve in whatever way that person needs.
So, to answer your question directly, I rarely leave a patient feeling tired. I feel sometimes energized and just overflowing with gratitude that I've been able to sit with this person and to serve with my heart.
Because fortunately, none of us has this limited reservoir of love. We don't. It's not like we give it out so there's only a little bit left. It's actually an ever-present resource that's available to us, and it's available to everyone.
In fact, when we feel like we're drained and we've got very little left to give, if we can shift our perspective and realize that love is boundless, it may just take that shift in perspective to give us the calm to be able to recognize that and to feel filled up again, if that makes sense.
Diana Weil:
Yeah. That was a beautiful answer. I think back to what Elara said about being afraid of death, I think that's a very natural experience of first going into something we don't know. It's natural to fear the unknown.
And I'm not someone who's been around death a lot, so I'm really curious from your perspective, someone who works in death, someone who is around death very frequently. And this is a personal question, just let me know if it's too personal.
But I'm just curious, like how do you feel about death? How do you feel about even your own death? What's your sort of perspective of death?
Mike Reagan:
I'll share my perspective in just a second, but on the topic of fear, I would say oftentimes I'll ask my patients, are they afraid of dying? And if they say yes, then I ask a qualifying question, are you afraid of the dying process or are you afraid of what happens next?
And if they're afraid of the dying process, they're usually afraid of pain. And the beautiful thing about hospice is that the hospice practice is geared towards minimizing pain and providing comfort. And in today's state of medicine, it's very much available, this ability to mitigate pain at the end.
So, if one chooses to go into hospice care, hopefully, their fear of the end being painful can be addressed. The fear of what happens next or fear of the unknown, that's a little more complicated.
Elara Hadjipateras:
That's the one that gets me. It's the just like “lights off, show's over.”
Mike Reagan:
Yeah. Well, so, I could see if someone believes firmly that there's nothing beyond this life, then they're probably going to cling to every last bit of this human experience that they can. And I could see how fear of nothingness could be real.
I could honestly say my personal belief about what happens next provides me with tremendous peace and comfort, not just about my own death and what's going to happen to me, but in my ability to sit and serve my patients at the end.
And my work has only deepened my understanding that there's so much more beyond this human experience that we do move on. That woman that raised her hands and said, “Yes, yes,” it's remarkable. It's indicative of, yeah, there's something else there.
I can't explain how I was able to see her on the other side of her body. Some people might describe that as her soul moving on to the next stage. I don't know how I'm able to see that. It's probably tied to energy like Jon was talking about, and maybe a temporary ability to connect in a way that science can't explain.
But I don't question at all the validity of that. And I view that as evidence that, yeah, there absolutely is something that we move on to. And every one of my experiences that has given me a glimpse into the other side is indicative of an absolutely beautiful experience that we're all destined to have.
Diana Weil:
One thing that we talked about with Seth is that, at least in the United States in traditional funerals, the body is very quickly taken away. The family doesn't have much interaction with the body.
And I know that the Natural Funeral is trying to change that process, but it just makes me wonder, as an end of care doula, how do you wish the conversation would change around death in the United States?
Mike Reagan:
Wow, that's a great question. And there are a lot of things that should change. First of all, I think we've got to get rid of this encouraged perspective that we don't talk about death. Why are we talking about death? No, that's uncomfortable. People don't want to do that.
We've got to get rid of that, because to the extent that we start talking about death, we can find ourselves living life more fully. When we talk about what happens at the end, because we don't know when our ticket's punched, when our journey here on earth is a human being is going to end.
Those people that get terminal diagnoses get a better handle on that. But we don't know. But what we do know is everyone's going to die. And so, let's talk about that reality.
We talk about birth all the time, and how wonderful that is. And we hone in on, and what was the birth like? And we're going to prepare for it. And we’re comfortable talking about that. Well, reality is we're all going to exit at some point as well and let's have a conversation about it.
As it relates to caring for a loved one after they die, the inclination to take a hands-off approach, because that's just not the way it's done. You call the guy in the black suit, and he takes care of the body, because I'm not really sure, but we're not supposed to touch a dead body.
But you know what, that body represents the vessel that your loved one occupied for their entire life. There's nothing to be afraid of there.
And so, go ahead and get comfortable with the idea of embracing and celebrating that vessel. And for heaven's sakes, don't pump it full of toxic chemicals and do all the things that traditions would have us do. Care for it in a much more reverent way.
And by the way, it's okay to do that. I think Seth may have covered the concept of Reverent Body Care, when we bring families into our funeral home to allow the family members to wash the feet of their loved one, and use that as a moment to allow stories to surface of where these feet have been.
And when you're washing their hands, what have these hands done? And gosh, I remember when mom knitted me that sweater and I still have it in my closet because it's really ugly, but mom made it with love.
And it's beautiful when we can allow those barriers to just drop. And those, sort of, expected restrictions to fall away and to just be natural and allow. That's what I would say about what needs to change.
Elara Hadjipateras:
Mike, do you feel like assisted suicide needs to be part of the conversation as well? I feel like that's kind of a hot button topic when it comes to death.
Mike Reagan:
Here in Colorado, we had a law passed, I want to say about seven or eight years ago. And it's called the Medical Aid in Dying Law.
And that allows for terminally ill patients to request a prescription for a mix of medicine that they can personally consume during their final stage of life that allows them to control, sort of, their exit point, if you will. And by the way, I have served patients that have availed themselves of medical aid in dying.
The term assisted suicide, I don't really align with as it relates to medical aid in dying. When a person receives a terminal diagnosis and they're approaching their end of life, I don't view it as suicide. I view it as them harnessing control of that end-of-life experience.
And I'll share a story with you. One of my doula patients, his daughter called me from out of state and said, “My dad was just diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. They're giving him a month to live and he needs support.”
So, I went and visited with him, and I said, “Charlie, how can I serve you at this time?” And he said, “Well, I was a pulmonary technician. And that's been my career.” That's what he does. He helps people breathe through medical means.
And he was deep in it during COVID, he was helping people breathe, and he saw the suffering that occurred when people were in these units dying. And he said, “I don't want to suffer like they suffered. And so, I want to avail myself of medical aid in dying.”
And so, I said, “Okay, what can I do to help?” He said, “I have no idea how to do this.” So, I called a friend of mine who was a physician that helped author Colorado's law, and I said, “Help us walk through this process.”
And he educated us. And then he made us aware of the waiting period, which was a two-week waiting period. And that is after the patient declares that they want to avail themselves in medical aid in dying. And they've been evaluated for their ability to make such a decision and to clearly express that they are not taking this action under any type of duress.
Once they're able to do that, and it's documented by a physician, they had to wait two weeks before the prescription could then be written.
Unfortunately, he didn't get a month. He died 12 days later. And his wish was to be able to be lucid at the end with his family, to be able to communicate with them, and to have a controlled exit that aligned with his wishes. And he didn't get that.
He experienced tremendous pain in the days leading up to his passing. So, he was very deep in sedation with morphine to control that pain. So, he didn't get his wish.
But thanks to him and his daughter's willingness to allow me to share his story, I testified before the Senate Committee of Health and Human Services at the State House about two months ago, and about a month ago, they passed a revision to the law that reduced the waiting period to seven days.
So, I must say I was disheartened when I testified, because there were probably 40 people there to testify. About 20 of us were there to testify in favor, and about 20 were there to testify against, saying, “This is suicide. We're enabling suicide.”
And for many of them, I understand that it's rooted in a religious belief that they think it's wrong. And so, I don't judge them for having that perception. It just saddened me that they have the perspective that they do, because I know that the Medical Aid in Dying Law has enabled people to have a beautiful, controlled end that was much better aligned with their wishes.
And none of those patients that I've served with medical aid in dying wanted to die, none of them. But they didn't get that choice. The disease laid that on them. The choice they had was, how do I want to die? And that's what medical aid in dying enabled.
Diana Weil:
I think it's so important to bring awareness to that and why that's an important choice.
Mike Reagan:
Yeah, I totally agree, Diana. Thank you.
Elara Hadjipateras:
Yet it just gives some grace at the end. I think is paramount. I think it's so important, and I'm just happy that we're starting to have those conversations and that we're starting to see legal momentum in that direction.
Mike Reagan:
Yes. I couldn't agree more. Yeah, thank you all for that support.
Diana Weil:
Mike, when is the right time to bring in a death doula? And what is the process?
Mike Reagan:
Great question. Thank you. I don't think it's ever too early to start talking about how you might leverage a death doula or an end-of-life guide at the end. People should start talking about it now. It's a service that has such a broad spectrum of ways in which it can serve a family.
From end-of-life planning, and the documentation of getting your wishes, onto the legal documents that need to reflect your wishes, to planning for the vigil, to having hands-on support during the vigil.
And to be able to coach the family in ways that enable them to have that beautiful experience loving connection with their loved one at the end, rather than having that end period be filled with fear and uncertainty.
So, start talking about it now. When would you call a doula? I think a good time is when you or someone you love receives a terminal diagnosis and explore what ways a doula might be able to serve you.
So many of us haven't walked this path before. Maybe you have walked the path before, and you don't need the support of a doula. That's okay but that's rare.
If you've got a loved one that's been diagnosed with a terminal illness and you haven't walked this path before, a doula can walk alongside you.
Not to take away anything that you might do, but simply to support you and give you the insight, the understanding, and the comfort to be able to serve your loved one really well in a way that is meaningful for them and for you.
Elara Hadjipateras:
I think that a workshop right now … I've been thinking, I guess, about life and death a lot more now that I'm a mother. It's at the top of the mind, all the accidents that can happen with the baby, this and that.
So, I think to myself, I would love to work with you now, Mike, like just from a, I don't know, I shouldn't say a preventative perspective, but just being able to have a bit more grace in dealing with the end-of-life conversation, just because I am getting older.
Unfortunately, a lot of my loved ones are getting older too. They're healthy right now, but that might not be the case a year, 5 years, 10 years from now.
So, how can I take advantage of the time that I have now with them before that terminal illness arrives? Do you ever kind of help people like with that stage even before where there's any talk of death? Like how could I have a conversation with my, not my five-month-old, but maybe when my son is five years old?
Mike Reagan :
I love that you asked that question, Elara. It's beautiful. And I wish everyone had the wisdom to ask that question. I would start by just reading, study up on it.
I'll share with you that the book that … he doesn't know it, but he's my mentor in this whole field. It's a gentleman by the name of Frank Ostaseski. He was one of the founders of the Zen Hospice Project in San Francisco, and he wrote a book called The Five Invitations: What Death Has Taught Me About Living Fully.
And it is an absolutely beautiful book that not only helps educate us about how to sit with the dying and how to serve them, but also, the life lessons that can inform us how to live fully now, and to talk about these things.
In fact, when you mentioned how to talk to kids about it, he talked about a time when he was with kids, and he used to take them into the woods in small groups. And they would look around and explore dead things that they found. And maybe it's a leaf that fell from the tree. Maybe it's the fall.
And he'd get kids to talk about what — and make up stories. “What's this leaf for?” “Oh, it's got to be a bed for this little ant.” And it's like he was able to foster a discussion about death as being natural and that it happens to all living things. And that's a very small piece of his book.
But yeah, I'd start investigating, talking about it, exploring questions, admitting your fears and exploring why am I afraid of that and how might my fear be conquered? What's available to me? So, yeah, I would say open up, have dialogue and read up on it.
Elara Hadjipateras:
I love the idea of getting out into nature as well. I'd say that that was … not that… I'm a self-proclaimed scaredy cat of death, but I did grow up on a farm, so I did see a fair amount of life and death from an early age.
And reflecting back, I do think that that's helped me a bit. It's primed me a bit in a good way as far as knowing that there's this beautiful cyclical process that happens. But it's not necessarily lights out at the end, I shouldn't say that.
Mike Reagan:
Yeah.
Diana Weil:
Mike, when people ask you what you do, one, (two questions) do you say that you're a death doula and that you are a CEO of a funeral home? And do you find, like what are people's reactions? Do they immediately exit the conversation?
Mike Reagan:
No, not really. Usually, by the time that comes up, I've been engaging with them and I'm just a normal guy. I mean, we tell jokes, we talk about current affairs, and then they get around, “Oh, by the way, what do you do?”
And then it's like, “Wait a minute, you seem like a kind of normal … well, not maybe normal, but ...” And then we just kind of ease into it.
And the reality is that those walls that are built up, that society has built up, they're not that thick because reality is so close at hand. We're all going to die. Anyone that asks me that question has had a family member that's passed.
And so, we're not as far removed as some might like to think we are. And so, we can go there fairly quickly. And when I explain it in a way that is gentle and I'm not scaring anyone, and it's talking about life and death is part of life. So, we get around that awkwardness pretty quickly with most people.
Elara Hadjipateras :
So, Mike, what is a life lesson that you have had to learn the hard way?
Mike Reagan:
I'd probably say that lesson I mentioned earlier, which was having an expectation that in order to serve someone at the end of life, I've got to show up with this toolkit and know the right thing to say. That was a really, really bad assumption.
I've been with people trying to pull out the right thing to say and said the absolutely wrong thing, and that's awkward. The reality is they got past it, and I got past it, but I really missed an opportunity to have served them.
So, the lesson I had to learn and embrace was that the most important thing is to simply be present and to open to what love and energy may provide as insight, and that enables and empowers me to then serve my clients.
Diana Weil:
That's a great answer. So, kind of the opposite of that question. What is a mantra or a lesson that you have learned from a loved one, or a friend, or a mentor that you kind of live life by? And it doesn't have to be something that you've always used as a mantra, but just sort of in this season of life.
Mike Reagan::
So, I met Seth Viddal in a mindfulness training course for hospice volunteers. And the course was designed to help us understand how to sit and to be present with people we're serving at the end of life. And there's a lot of Buddhism and Buddhist practices that are used in that training program.
And I think the greatest lesson that I learned from that is aligned with this idea of being present, kind of void of our own stuff. And I am far from perfect in embracing this, but in my imperfection, I strive to align with the mantra of I am loving awareness.
I am loving awareness because embedded in that is, in order to be aware, you have to be present. You can't have other stuff you're thinking about because then you're not aware. And I want to be aware and present with love.
So, having loving awareness, it's being open, it's being present, and it's serving with love. If we can all be lovingly aware, we'll be happier, we'll be able to serve people, we'll steer away from judgment of ourselves and of others. And really beautiful things can happen when we can embrace that.
Elara Hadjipateras:
Yeah. Not only being able to serve people more love but accept it. Accepting the love that we think we deserve.
Mike Reagan:
Yeah.
Elara Hadjipateras:
So, Mike, can you let our listeners know, if they want to have a conversation with you, maybe hear more about your work, where can they find you?
Mike Reagan:
Sure. Well, they can always find me at thenaturalfuneral.com. And we've got to a contact us area there.
If they're interested in hearing some more of my stories of sitting at the bedside, I have a website called peacefulpresence.org, peacefulpresence.org.
And there on my website (that's my doula website) there's a section called Stories From the Bedside where I share several of my experiences with my patients. And there's also a contact me section there as well if they want to get ahold of me.
And by the way, I'm connected with a number of doula organizations around the country. So, if there's someone that is in New Jersey, I have a bundle of wonderful doulas in the New Jersey area that I'm connected to. So, I would be happy to connect them there too.
Diana Weil :
Well, thank you so much, Mike. And I just want to remind our listeners that if you haven't checked out the first part of this episode with Seth, it's a really great listen and I highly encourage you to go back and listen to that one. Thank you for being here.
Mike Reagan:
Okay, great. Yeah. Thank you all very much. It's been my pleasure.
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